Builders League United designers present...

[Logi]

Vertical 8" main belt very weak for a 31.5 kt ship.

[Desertfox]

8" main belt is overamored for a 31.5kt ship

[TexanCowboy]

8" main belt is overamored for a 31.5kt ship

This coming from the man who had a golden twinke when a 14'' shell hit a barbette...

[snip]

I think it is to heavly armed for 31 knts on 35k tons. (Yes, I like German type BCs)

[Desertfox]

Hey, that was an 11kt coastal battleships vs a 31kt battleship, had nothing to do with armor. I also took 2x 15kt battle cruisers vs 2 50kt super battleships and had them survive in better condition than the super BBs...

[Sachmle]

Actually, for Canterberry, you've got ~4,000t to play with since the tender was for a 35k BC and she's weighing in at 31+.

[Laertes]

She can't take that additional weight. If I increase the block coefficient, her seakeeping values go out the window. If I make her wider at the beam, her seakeeping goes out the window. I could make her deeper, but the customer disliked the proposal with a 38ft keel.

While we at BLU feel that, somehow, a type-3 slip buildable, 35kt, 160,000shp, 4x2 42cm/L45, armoured, torpedo-protected ship must be possible, we haven't got anything that matches that magic list. We intend to keep picking at it like a scab.

[Laertes]

Finally, completing the Orange tenders, we have the following pair. Wellington is a CA, designed to use the 5x2 gun layout trialed but discarded on the earlier draft of Auckland. We used 6" instead of 5" secondaries, in order to standardise her secondary turrets with those on the other craft - it wouldn't be difficult to for us to replace them if your heart is set on 5" secondaries.

Wellington, BLU Armoured Cruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
   15,014 t light; 15,641 t standard; 17,510 t normal; 19,005 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   555.00 ft / 555.00 ft x 86.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   169.16 m / 169.16 m x 26.21 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      10 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (5x2 guns), 389.34lbs / 176.60kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,823 lbs / 2,188 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.00" / 25 mm   360.00 ft / 109.73 m   34.00 ft / 10.36 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      9.00" / 229 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 9.00" / 229 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 66,890 shp / 49,900 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,364 tons

Complement:
   760 - 989

Cost:
   £3.213 million / $12.852 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 603 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 5,427 tons, 31.0 %
      - Belts: 2,257 tons, 12.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 453 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armament: 1,371 tons, 7.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,215 tons, 6.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 131 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,339 tons, 13.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,405 tons, 36.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,497 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 240 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23,633 lbs / 10,720 Kg = 60.7 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 16.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.535
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (33 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.20 ft / 5.85 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,846 Square feet or 3,052 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 685 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.46
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent





Secondly, the Christchurch light monitor. You specified "as small as possible", and she's not a large ship considering the armament. We tried hard to fit a triple turret, but there seems to be no way to do that on a hull that'll be produced by a type 1 slip. She mounts no secondaries, and will need to be escorted.

Christchurch, BLU Monitor laid down 1920

Displacement:
   6,362 t light; 6,773 t standard; 7,718 t normal; 8,474 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   388.00 ft / 388.00 ft x 72.00 ft x 15.80 ft (normal load)
   118.26 m / 118.26 m x 21.95 m  x 4.82 m

Armament:
      2 - 16.54" / 420 mm guns (1x2 guns), 2,260.56lbs / 1,025.37kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,587 lbs / 2,081 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   185.00 ft / 56.39 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 73 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 1 shaft, 9,976 shp / 7,442 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,702 tons

Complement:
   411 - 535

Cost:
   £1.780 million / $7.120 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 573 tons, 7.4 %
   Armour: 1,549 tons, 20.1 %
      - Belts: 1,084 tons, 14.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 464 tons, 6.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 349 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,816 tons, 49.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,356 tons, 17.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,511 lbs / 5,221 Kg = 5.1 x 16.5 " / 420 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.49

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.612
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.39 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.70 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Quarterdeck (33 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.60 ft / 4.75 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,250 Square feet or 1,881 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 697 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.31
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Laertes]

While we at BLU feel that, somehow, a type-3 slip buildable, 35kt, 160,000shp, 4x2 42cm/L45, armoured, torpedo-protected ship must be possible, we haven't got anything that matches that magic list. We intend to keep picking at it like a scab.

And we are eventually successful. I present to you the "thank goodness the £ cost presented on the Springsharp report is ignored by the N-verse system" product of the BLU design studios, the BLU Hamilton.

Hamilton, BLU Battlecruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
   32,430 t light; 34,277 t standard; 37,501 t normal; 40,080 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   710.00 ft / 710.00 ft x 106.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
   216.41 m / 216.41 m x 32.31 m  x 9.75 m

Armament:
      8 - 16.54" / 420 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,260.56lbs / 1,025.37kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 8 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 19,485 lbs / 8,838 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   535.00 ft / 163.07 m   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 116 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.00" / 25 mm   535.00 ft / 163.07 m   43.00 ft / 13.11 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      10.0" / 254 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 147,681 shp / 110,170 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,804 tons

Complement:
   1,346 - 1,751

Cost:
   £10.588 million / $42.352 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,436 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 9,133 tons, 24.4 %
      - Belts: 4,493 tons, 12.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 851 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 2,580 tons, 6.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 967 tons, 2.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 241 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 5,010 tons, 13.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,452 tons, 41.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,071 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36,904 lbs / 16,739 Kg = 16.3 x 16.5 " / 420 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.545
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      35.00 ft / 10.67 m
      - Forecastle (29 %):   35.00 ft / 10.67 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m aft of break)
      - Mid (30 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarterdeck (33 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Stern:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Average freeboard:   23.64 ft / 7.21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 52,278 Square feet or 4,857 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 209 lbs/sq ft or 1,021 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.54
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent



400t misc:

250t capital ship fire control
25t experimental radar
25t long-range radio
100t storage to alleviate lower-deck crowding

[mentat]

Sorry - call me boring -  but i don't see rationale of 420cm guns but only 25cm belt - which is useless vs. 13+" gunned opponents - and why otherwise need 42cm guns to fight ...

A sensible balance at this awkward size - is proper armour - so it can stand in battle line when required - at least 13-14' Belt + Turrets - and then best Guns you can fit (maybe 32/33cm) - can easily beat ACs + contribute to Battle Line

- if this considered too small - go up to bigger ship - i.e. proper Fast BB - even if only 28-9 knots

(32 k tons is awkward size - neither fish nor fowl)

- and the deck armour is a bad joke for anyone onboard - add more Misc Wt for extra Life Rafts .....

[Ithekro]

As a battlecruiser, her belt armor is about normal for the time period, thought other places are too thin.  The deck is painfully thin for a ship of this age.

The basic rules of engagement for a Battlecruiser is kill anything you can't run away from (or it much smaller than you are) and run away from things that can kill you.  This means a lot of long range gun battles as the Battlecruiser attempts to get out of the weapons range of other Battlecruisers and Battleships and likely long range duels with Cruisers in an effort of be outside of their effective firing range.  Thus the belt armor only has to be thick enough to survive long distance plunging fire...but by this same token the deck armor also is heavily needed at long range, since it is mostly plunging fire.

Especially if the nation building this has access to modern-ish Fire Control systems that help at greater distances.

[Laertes]

Oh, and Darman - I'm playing with the fast raiding minelayer, but I'm not very good at small, light ships.

Incidentally, there's a field in Springsharp where one can simply enter the normal displacement desired and it'll give you the block constant. Is there a way of entering the light displacement similarly, or does one trial-and-error it as I've been doing?

[Logi]

You might know this already, but there is an arrow by the report button at the upper right corner. Displays a whole list of things.

One of the things it displays in light displacement. And yes, you pretty much have to do trial and error.

If it displays 130 normal and shows 98 light, generally speaking +2 t to normal should push it to 100t, if not, 99 or 101t.