RRC Battleship Concepts

[Logi]

I swear I'm gonna build these! >:( I need to fill my desire to make a Battleship :-X

A school of fish is all well and good (I like it), but in fleet action far from our shores we will need larger more powerful ships.


Moving on...

This is a redesigned Juren design concept. It's turrets are arranged Nelson-style with the bridge at aft. This saves quite some weight, 0.2 composite rating. (Surprisingly switching the guns to aft grouped saves 0.4 composite rating :-[ )

The ship was given oil-firing engines, larger secondary (+4 guns), MGs (which will be used mostly towards very small ships and improvised usage against aircraft. The belt is thinned 1" from Juren but 1 ft taller also the deck is 1" thicker. Range is lowered but I don't need that much range anyways.

Morning Star, Republic of China Battleship laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   27,000 t light; 28,918 t standard; 30,565 t normal; 31,882 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 711.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 216.71 m x 27.43 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
     12 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft
     8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 21,143 lbs / 9,591 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   471.00 ft / 143.56 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   471.00 ft / 143.56 m   22.00 ft / 6.71 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

  - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 54,304 shp / 40,510 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,964 tons

Complement:
   1,155 - 1,502

Cost:
   £6.196 million / $24.784 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,226 tons, 7.3 %
   Armour: 9,368 tons, 30.6 %
      - Belts: 3,088 tons, 10.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 575 tons, 1.9 %
      - Armament: 2,064 tons, 6.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,388 tons, 11.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 253 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,023 tons, 6.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,875 tons, 42.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,565 tons, 11.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 508 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33,077 lbs / 15,004 Kg = 24.1 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 4.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.93
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.576
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21.37 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.04 ft / 4.89 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 45,781 Square feet or 4,253 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 205 lbs/sq ft or 1,002 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.15
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[TexanCowboy]

I like it. However, don't you only have a 13'' gun. And if you do, can I purchase it?

[Logi]

I have a 13" gun but no turret for it. I also have a French-bought 14" gun and my own 14" quadruple turret for it. Its the one good thing the Indochinese did.

Depending on offer you might be able to buy it.

[Tanthalas]

The Naval High Command looks Carefully at the Proposal, and starts Drooling.  Snatches of Overheard Conversation revolve around MMMMM FOOD.

[The Rock Doctor]

It's promising, but I think I'd trade a bit of deck armor and speed for a heavier belt.

[ctwaterman]

Well if he utilizing the Old French 13.??? Guns relined to 14" then he can save a massive amount of weight simply by utilizing the 1300# shells they were designed with.

If he designed a 14" 356mm/L50 like the one I have under construction then the 1600 Lbs plus shells are more accurate.

But Yes more Belt Armor you need a BB to be armored against its own guns at least theoretically.

[Tanthalas]

Well if he utilizing the Old French 13.??? Guns relined to 14" then he can save a massive amount of weight simply by utilizing the 1300# shells they were designed with.

If he designed a 14" 356mm/L50 like the one I have under construction then the 1600 Lbs plus shells are more accurate.

But Yes more Belt Armor you need a BB to be armored against its own guns at least theoretically.

The Irony is im not sure that ship wouldnt be out of date before it finished construction.  its like Gincourt in some ways... Shit load of guns, slowish and light armor.  Course if I was the RRC id be building Destroyers.

[Jefgte]

A nice & powerfull BB for RRC


;)

[mentat]

I definitely agree with swapping deck vs. belt armour - 1" for 3" ratio is very favourable

I think you could have 80mm deck (OK) and get +60mm Belt - giving 340mm - very respectable - and needed vs 14" + opposition. In this period - most effective engagements require emphasis more on Belt than deck - although that will shift later on.

However - I think bigger issue - depending on your requirements - have you considerd option of 8 x 14" Faster BB - could have have maybe 27/8 knots and strong all round protection - probably a much more useful ship in medium/long term ..... ;D

[Logi]

It doesn't have a shit load of guns, just three turrets. I only have quadruple turrets for the 14"s.

I'm using the resized 13.5"/45 French gun.

This setup allows my ship to serve as a BB but avoid heavier BB enemies. It can sink smaller BBs and BCs, and get away from the <30k ton monsters. It has enough firepower to compete with other BBs, but enough speed to compete with BCs as well.

Anyways:
V2 - Increased Belt by 2", reduced Deck by 1"

Morning Star, Republic of China Battleship laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   27,000 t light; 28,918 t standard; 30,565 t normal; 31,882 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 711.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 216.71 m x 27.43 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      12 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft
      8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 21,143 lbs / 9,590 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   472.00 ft / 143.87 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   472.00 ft / 143.87 m   22.00 ft / 6.71 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 54,303 shp / 40,510 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,964 tons

Complement:
   1,155 - 1,502

Cost:
   £6.196 million / $24.784 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,226 tons, 7.3 %
   Armour: 9,287 tons, 30.4 %
      - Belts: 3,655 tons, 12.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 576 tons, 1.9 %
      - Armament: 2,219 tons, 7.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,541 tons, 8.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 295 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 2,023 tons, 6.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,929 tons, 42.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,565 tons, 11.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 535 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33,311 lbs / 15,110 Kg = 24.3 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 4.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.89
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.576
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 21.37 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.04 ft / 4.89 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 45,781 Square feet or 4,253 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,006 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.15
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Mentat's Fast BB

Morning Star, Republic of China Battleship laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   26,500 t light; 27,958 t standard; 31,143 t normal; 33,691 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 711.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 216.71 m x 27.43 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
     8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,620.00lbs / 734.82kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     20 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (10x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (4x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 14,688 lbs / 6,662 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   450.00 ft / 137.16 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   261.00 ft / 79.55 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   450.00 ft / 137.16 m   22.00 ft / 6.71 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 87,232 shp / 65,075 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 8,400nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,733 tons

Complement:
   1,171 - 1,523

Cost:
   £5.433 million / $21.732 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,588 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 9,054 tons, 29.1 %
      - Belts: 3,918 tons, 12.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 549 tons, 1.8 %
      - Armament: 1,712 tons, 5.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,618 tons, 8.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 256 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,250 tons, 10.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,058 tons, 38.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,643 tons, 14.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 550 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     36,689 lbs / 16,642 Kg = 26.7 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.608
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.80 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.22 ft / 5.25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 47,168 Square feet or 4,382 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 187 lbs/sq ft or 913 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.08
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Tanthalas]

it couldnt run away from Asfaloth, and with her superior armor and heavier guns it wouldnt even be a fair fight.  However I agree it could run from most ships it couldnt out fight, However you have to consider your potential enemy and Rohan likley isnt one of them.

[Logi]

This is because if the RRC continues down the war-making path it is going through. It may have to display more naval power. I'm not competing with Rohan, just looking at the other ships in the Pacific. As it is the Chinese Navy can not fight a battle off their own shores. This is extremely problematic.

[TexanCowboy]

Logi, look at it this way. You have ships with guns over 3'' in active service. And honestly, out of all the likely enemies, Tanthalas, that would smoke the Invincible in a fight any day.

[Tanthalas]

Logi, look at it this way. You have ships with guns over 3'' in active service. And honestly, out of all the likely enemies, Tanthalas, that would smoke the Invincible in a fight any day.

Posibly, but the Is were never intended to operate alone, they were intended to operate as pairs.  there is always the Consideration that Someone like Rohan could become involved in any future conflict though.

[Logi]

So no comments on the two new designs?