RRC Rocketry Discussion

[The Rock Doctor]

OOC: I have no clue what Tsien Hsue-shen's father's name was so I am referring to him here as T.H. F. And on the Vertical launch platform, I would need to know if it would work.

I had no problems with using a metal container for a vertical launch cell - I just don't know how you aim the rocket contained within it.

[Logi]

OOC: You open the hatch and fire the rocket. The rocket is designed to turn at a certain point, so it's like normal artillery fire, except you aim vertically. IE: The rockets I posted about. It can be done, although the troublesome thing is I have to get people to turn the rocket (that's why there's a cylinder on ball bearings) to aim it at a direction. There's a good minute of two gone.

[The Rock Doctor]

How long would the ship need to maintain constant bearing/range to the target?

[Logi]

Probably 5 or 6 minutes to prepare, shoot, and shut the hatch again. Maybe four if the crew is experienced in doing this.

[Walter]

It can be done, although the troublesome thing is I have to get people to turn the rocket (that's why there's a cylinder on ball bearings) to aim it at a direction. There's a good minute of two gone.

Not to mention that something like that would seriously increase the inaccuracy of something that is anything but accurate at this point... but that is just my opinion. :)

[Logi]

I'm not trying to shoot down something on the sea, its like an added naval bombardment feature. And I do know it would be pretty much inaccurate.

[The Rock Doctor]

Mmm - I had a thought on the VLS aspect of this.

My recollection is that modern VLS systems use compressed air or something to burp the missile out of the tube - then the booster ignites.  Is such a system necessary and possible in 1916?  Or can a rocket safely ignite and launch from an enclosed tube without blowing itself up?

[maddox]

Compressed air launch doesn't have much secrets. The Zalinskydynamite guns are well know.

But combining compressed air , an ignition system and black powder in an age were clockwork mechanisme are the only advanced timer controlers.
In an enclosed tube, in a ship, with a cover that needs to be watertight and needs to open in time. With an aiming mechanism that partialy depends on the ship turning at the same time, and from a rocking deck.

I think it's easier to mount a mortar in a barbette and achive the same result without carrying BIG powderbags outside a magazine.

Just to give an idea, a steel tube 20" diameter 300" long with a wall that can withstand 150 psi weights over 2 ton.

[Walter]

I'm not trying to shoot down something on the sea, its like an added naval bombardment feature.

Yeah, but with all the additional things that make the rockets even less accurate, the rockets you'd be firing at the enemies shore will probably end up on your own shore! :)

[maddox]

Imagine the mistakes made with computer guided missiles. Tomahawks missing entire countries and hitting foreign embassies.

[Walter]

Hell, he'd be lucky if it were to hit his own shore as it now seems more likely that the rocket will probably end up in the Himalayas. ;D

[Sachmle]

Or just go up, turn, and slam into his own ship's bridge.  ;D

[Logi]

@ samchle
The rockets fly up over 600 yards height before turning, how would that touch my ship at all?

@Walter
The rockets don't have that kind of range even with slow winds, which, reading wind charts and map will tell you their aren't. Not to mention the wind patterns are pretty predictable.

@Maddox
Again the rockets don't have that much range, therefore they won't do anything like that.

And I think you are misreading here. I mean the rockets will have the hatch opened manually. The rocket will be fired by a button (?) after the hatch is opened. But we could make that button to push the rocket out with compressed air and ignite the rocket.

The point was a vertical box takes less space than a mortar in a barrette.

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The rocket flies up at 600+ yards altitude before turning in one or two seconds. The wind does not have time to blow the rocket much in this time frame, unless its real heavy winds where common sense would dictate not to fire the rocket.

I have checked the wind maps in Asia and except for far out in sea, the winds are generally calm, 10 mph tops for coastline, 0~4 mph inland.

The rocket has about as much chance of ending up in the Himalayas as a 8~10" shell doing the same.

[ctwaterman]

*evil grin*

Ok not to rain on this parade but

We are talking about Black Powder rockets and Per World War II Fuzes....  the powder over time will tend to attract moisture right out of the air.  This will cause vastly different burn times for fuzes and the Black powder propellent.  

As an example how many bottle rockets in a pack of 100 simply fail to operate when the fuze is lit.  Now store the bottle rockets in a plastic bag on a shelf in you room for a year?  [I know from experience and have the scar to prove it :) ]  Now how many fail to fire but still explode.

Anyway we are not talking an Era of Solid Fuel Propellant or even Liquid Fuel Propellant we are talking an Era of Gun Cotton, Black Powder and TNT.   Even slight changes in the manufacturing of the Black Powder can change its burn rates and exposure to humidity and simple age can make the Black Powder or the TNT extremely unstable.

The Fuzes well lets just look at the fuzes of the British Shells the delay fuze was not letting the Shell penetrate the armor and the explosives even unfused had a tendancy to explode due to the pressure of the shells impact.   You could get compressed air to launch the rocket out of the tube but how are you going to guarantee ignition before gravity points it in a direction you dont want like say your own ship or the ship  1000 feet to your stern....??????   The US navy had a problem with this in the 1960's trying to get Submarine Launched missiles to ignite before the force of the massive CO2 charge which launched them into the air from under the water ran out.   This requires very very precise timming and it just isnt going to work.

Now if you want to take a bunch of Rockets pile them in a Barge or LCI and point it at the beach and to be safe get the crew off then push a button.  The question is how reliable is the battery "Cars are still cranked in 1916 to start" and TNT Electronic Detonators use a friction static charge as well as a chemical battery.  I dont think Electronic Detnoators or even the ignition ignightes I used for my Model Rockets exist quite yet.

Charles

[Logi]

Oh dear, now my response.

Theres no need for naval bombardment in peacetime is there? The rockets will be loaded when war breaks out, not before. The hatch is meant to both seal water out and preserve the rocket (although its really just a day or today before the rocket will probably be fired).

At your point about compressed air, I understand. It was just a possibility, I meant for it to be fired form the metal box itself. I don't like to complicate a already complicated thing anyways.

If I wanted a barge or LCI and point it at the beach, there would be no point in making longer distanced rockets would there? I can just do that with an rocket artillery brigade.

The point is the ability to bombard inland with rockets as well as guns, not the beach. Using a barge or LCI and packs of rockets also eliminates the point of space saving. I want to use less space for the same firepower, not more.