Brigades and other army stuff

[miketr]

I would like to in the few days attempt to get back into the issue of addition brigade scale units and tank costs.  I will be posting stuff here in a day or so.

[miketr]

New tables with the updated upkeep cost and links that the mods can use for the rules section.  I will put up some other stuff for people to debate later today or perhaps Sunday as I have a lot of real life work to do in the next few days.  Note I set forts to the same upkeep cost as the other army stuff 1(0% 5% 1%).

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/166/fortv30.png


http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9422/siegev30.png


http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/6863/fortlinev30.png


http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/3757/corpsv30.png

[The Rock Doctor]

Thanks - I'll have a look some time over the weekend.

[ctwaterman]

Yea Mike... useful very useful and now I dont have to hunt for the Fortress Page.

[miketr]

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7002/brigadesbasicv31.png


http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/5615/brigadeswv30.png


http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4571/brigadeatv30.png


http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/3796/brigadesexpandedv30.png

[miketr]

1.0   Unit Sizes
   1.1   Corps (XXX), base land unit of NAVALISM  made up of 50,000 men
   1.2   Division (XX), half of a corps, 25,000 men
   1.3   Brigade (X), one tenth of a corps, 5,000 men

2.0   Standard Brigades
   2.1   Infantry, troops trained to fight enemy troops on foot.  Cost see chart.
   2.2   Specialist, troops trained to fight lightly, fast and or in special environments.  Mountain (Alpine), Cavalry, Jungle, Naval Infantry (Marine) and Desert are typical specialist infantry formations.  In game terms there is no cost difference between line infantry and specialist infantry but specialist infantry only gains there movement bonus when employed with pack artillery.  Cost see chart.
   2.3   Artillery, troops equipped with weapons (field guns, howitzers, etc) to support the infantry.  Cost see chart.
   2.4   Artillery (pack), light weight guns designed to be highly mobile but at the price of greatly reduced firepower.  Cost see chart.
   2.5   Artillery (siege), heavy and slow form of artillery intended to reduce fortifications through direct fire.  Cost see chart.
   2.6   Tank (light), an armored fighting vehicle that weighs up to 20 tons.  Light tanks are faster than heavy tanks of the same generation.  Cost see chart.
   2.7    Tank (heavy), an armored fighting vehicle that weighs over 20 tons.  Heavy tanks have more fire power than light tanks of the same generation.  Cost see chart.

3.0   Non Standard Brigades
   3.1   Engineer, A manpower pool, tools and highly trained engineers able to speed up construction or destruction of such tasks like entrenchments.  Cost $0.5 and 0.05 BP
   3.2   Engineer (railroad), a highly specialized engineering unit that can only build or repair railroad lines.  Cost $1 and 0.1 BP
   3.3   Headquarters "HQ", an administrative unit to over see the operations of separate units.  An HQ could represent a nations General Staff, the command of an army or army group controlling several Corps and attached Brigades, the military command of several units far away from a nation's home land such as in a colony or perhaps an expeditionary force, etc.  Cost $0.25 and 0.0 BP
   3.4   Logistics (horse), all corps, divisions and even brigades are assumed to have their own integrated commissary units but some times circumstances might suggest the need for additional support.  Perhaps a campaign is being attempted far from a nations borders or over particularly hostile terrain such as desert or mountains.  The rule of is that a unit can support itself 100 miles / 160 km from a railhead and or its point of supply.  An greater distance requires additional logistical support.  Each logistics brigade can increase that support distance another 100 miles / 160 km for up to one corps or ten brigades.  Each additional corps requires another logistics brigade.  As does another 100 miles / 160 km of distance.  Depending upon circumstances moderators might require additional logistical support.  Cost $0.1 and 0.0 BP
   3.5   Gendarmerie or Constabulary "Security", is a specially trained but lightly armed unit to maintain order over a hostile civilian population.  One Constabulary Brigade can keep order over 500,000 civilians.  Depending upon circumstances moderators might require additional Constabulary Brigades to keep order.  Cost $0.2 and 0.04 BP
   3.6   Artillery Anti Aircraft (AA), High Angle and High velocity artillery designed to engage aircraft.  An AA brigade would also include spotters, range finders and other specialist equipment to allow the guns to engage high flying and fast moving aircraft.  Note an AA brigade can function as an AT brigade at need but while doing so it can't engage enemy aircraft.  Cost see chart. 
   3.7   Artillery Anti Tank (AT), High velocity artillery designed to destroy enemy tanks.  Provides stated value vs. armored attack only and none vs. infantry attack.  Cost see chart.
   3.8   Special Weapons, a collection of machineguns, grenades, mortars, flame throwers, infantry guns, etc. intended to increase the firepower of a Division or Corps.  A special weapons brigade is not intended to fight by itself as while it has a great deal of firepower lacks manpower to employ it properly in the attack or defense.  Cost see chart.

4.0   Creating non standard corps or division
   4.1   Each Division contains 5 brigades and each Corps contains 10 brigades.
   4.2   A player can spend $1 to buy an empty Corps or two Divisions. Said empty units or shells will contain all control and logistics units required for the brigades to work together in the larger organization.
   4.3   To create a non standard high formation simply slot in the required number of brigades and apply the synergy bonus; see 5.0.
   4.4   A standard corps is made up of eight brigades of infantry and two brigades of artillery or pack artillery.  A standard division is made up of four brigades of infantry and one brigade of artillery or pack artillery.
   4.5   Upkeep is based upon the cost of individual brigades and not the $1 or $0.5 cost to create the Corps or Division shell.   

5.0   Synergy Bonus
   5.1   Corps, brigades (a maximum of ten) combined in a corps have a synergy bonus of 25%.  Note the base ratings for corps already have this bonus included.  The bonus is only for calculating the value of nonstandard corps.
   5.2   Division, brigades (a maximum of five) combined in a division have a synergy bonus of 10%.
   5.3   Brigades, brigades have no synergy bonus for working together unless combined within a division or corps level formation.

6.0   Motorization
   6.1   Basic Motorization available after 1910 allows increased tactical mobility of units.  Cost is $1 and 0.5 BP per Corps or $0.1 or 0.05 BP per Brigade.  Unit upkeep would increase by $0.1/$0.05/$0.01 per Corps or $0.01/$0.005/$0.001 per Brigade.
   6.2   Basic Motorization available after 1920 allows increased strategic mobility of units.  Cost is $2 and 1 BP per Corps or $0.2 or 0.1 BP per Brigade.  Unit upkeep would increase by $0.2/$0.1/$0.02 per Corps or $0.02/$0.01/$0.02 per Brigade.

 
Will post something on tanks later...

[TexanCowboy]

Just a comment, 10 Brigades is less than a corps total. Shouldn't that be fixed, or else huge lists of brigades will be formed? Other than that, I like it.

[miketr]

Just a comment, 10 Brigades is less than a corps total. Shouldn't that be fixed, or else huge lists of brigades will be formed? Other than that, I like it.

10 Brigades to a corps has been the "official" ratio for some time now unless something changed and I missed it.  Real life ratios are something else of course.

[TexanCowboy]

I know. The thing is, 10 Brigades, the same as a Corp, costs less than a full corp. Other than that, I love all the new additions, like the security forces.

[miketr]

1905 Corps cost $10 and 1.25 BP 5/3 rating.

Vs.

Eight 1905 Infantry Brigades ($0.625 and 0.079 BP) x8 = $5 and 0.632 BP
PLUS
Two 1905 Artillery Brigades ($2.5 and .313 BP) x2 = $5 and 0.626 BP
PLUS
One Empty Corps Shell $1

$11 and 1.258 BP so building a corps from scratch costs a little more than the default value.  I think you were assuming a corps would be all infantry brigades when its 8 infantry and 2 artillery.

[ctwaterman]

Excellent Excellent *rubs hands together*...

Now I can actually build Army Groups..... with Army Assets.

# of Brigades	Brigade Type	$ Cost	BP Cost
1	Corps Shells	$1	0
1	HQ Brigade	$.25	0
2	Engineer Brigades	$1	.1
2	Engineer R&R Brigades	$2	.2
5	Logistics Brigades-Horse	$.5	0
10	Motorization all Brigades	$1	.5

Total Army HQ Cost: $4.75 and BP .8

As an Example the Army HQ  listed above is designed to support 5 Full Corp on a move up to 200 Miles or 320 Km from the nearest railhead.  In addition it is motorized replacing many of the horses with trucks and tracktors.  It is not designed for combat as its combat power is litterally nothing.  But it represents a massive amount of logistical support that can build its own railways or repair captured ones as it advances.

[miketr]

I would assume one brigade of railroad engineers would be enough.  Also for such a setup I wouldn't bother with a corps setup but have brigades like that as independent formations at army level.  Only reason I would assign units to corps is for direct combat operations.

[ctwaterman]

Ok will look over the Idea.   But the Idea still shows what I think you are trying to accomplish.  The ability to Build Regiments or small groups of Army Assets I was going to work on Army level support with additional regiments of Artillary, and Anti-Tank/AA units.  No matter what you have to pay the $1 to buy 10 Regiments worth of manpower correct ???

Charles

[miketr]

The $1 is just to get a Corps or 2 Division shells.  Nothing to stop people from buying scads of brigades if they want.  Just without a Corps of Division to put them in they are just scads of brigades and not an integrated combat formation.

[TexanCowboy]

Ok, is this approved by the Mods? Also, if it is, can I immediantly begin replacing my corps with specilized brigades? And is it possible to get a double specilization(Arctic Calvary, etc).(I want dogsleds  ;))