Next Generation Rohan BC

[Tanthalas]

since I technicly should lay one down in 1916 im working on several ideas, one is to continue Rohans tradition of using 12" guns on their BCs.  With that in mind here is the first of the ideas.

Asfaloth, Rohan Battle Cruiser laid down 1916 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   27,000 t light; 28,088 t standard; 29,704 t normal; 30,997 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 100.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 213.36 m x 30.48 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      9 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3x3 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 8,687 lbs / 3,940 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   25.70 ft / 7.83 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 72,561 shp / 54,131 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,908 tons (40% coal)

Complement:
   1,130 - 1,470

Cost:
   £3.727 million / $14.907 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,086 tons, 3.7 %
   Armour: 11,310 tons, 38.1 %
      - Belts: 6,181 tons, 20.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 599 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 1,662 tons, 5.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,662 tons, 9.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 207 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,002 tons, 10.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,102 tons, 37.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,704 tons, 9.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     48,081 lbs / 21,809 Kg = 55.6 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 8.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.530
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.46 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   30.00 ft / 9.14 m (24.00 ft / 7.32 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.20 ft / 6.46 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 47,967 Square feet or 4,456 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 168 lbs/sq ft or 820 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.24
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

500 tons Misc weight
250 tons FC
250 tons ?

[Tanthalas]

another Option is switching to 14" guns Here is that option.

Asfaloth, Rohan Battle Cruiser laid down 1916 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   26,000 t light; 27,247 t standard; 28,664 t normal; 29,798 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 707.00 ft x 99.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 215.49 m x 30.18 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (8x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      12 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (1x12 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
     on side
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (1x12 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mount
     on side
   Weight of broadside 11,910 lbs / 5,402 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   425.00 ft / 129.54 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   282.00 ft / 85.95 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   425.00 ft / 129.54 m   24.81 ft / 7.56 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 70,120 shp / 52,309 Kw = 26.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,551 tons

Complement:
   1,100 - 1,431

Cost:
   £4.176 million / $16.704 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,489 tons, 5.2 %
   Armour: 9,644 tons, 33.6 %
      - Belts: 4,192 tons, 14.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 585 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 2,008 tons, 7.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,617 tons, 9.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 242 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,796 tons, 9.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,571 tons, 40.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,664 tons, 9.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     37,121 lbs / 16,838 Kg = 27.1 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak, low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.512
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.14 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.00 ft / -1.22 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (70 %):      13.00 ft / 3.96 m (21.00 ft / 6.40 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m before break)
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.61 ft / 5.37 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 47,146 Square feet or 4,380 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 894 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.05
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[The Rock Doctor]

Could go either way - Rohan seems to have stuck with 14" for its battleships for a long time, so might stick with 12" for the battlecruisers.

On the other hand, the 14" design seems superior on less tonnage, which must be due to the reduced freeboard or something...

[Tanthalas]

I think im gona go with the 14" ship for the next gen BC, and the next gen Combat Cruiser (which Rohan has always had but are horibly out of date atm) will have 12" guns instead of its traditional 10".  So the New Rohan ships will look somthing like this

CC 6X12" 30+ knots
BC 8X14" 26+ Knots
BB 8X15.5" 22+knots

I realy wish Ithekro had gone with 16" instead of 15.5, but its what I got so I'll work with it.

[Jefgte]

...
CC 6X12" 30+ knots
BC 8X14" 26+ Knots
BB 8X15.5" 22+knots
...

Well balanced choice

;)

[Tanthalas]

While I was without internet for 3 days... (stupid antena broke friday night) I came up with a new Idea for Rohans next gen BC (or would it be a FAST BB I cant realy decide what to call it)




Asfaloth, Rohan Fast Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   36,200 t light; 37,968 t standard; 43,866 t normal; 48,584 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   808.00 ft / 792.00 ft x 118.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   246.28 m / 241.40 m x 35.97 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
     8 - 15.50" / 394 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,861.94lbs / 844.56kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     16 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (6 mounts), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns (2x2 guns), 45.56lbs / 20.67kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 15,823 lbs / 7,177 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   514.00 ft / 156.67 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   278.00 ft / 84.73 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   514.00 ft / 156.67 m   26.00 ft / 7.92 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   4th:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

  - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 120,000 shp / 89,520 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 8,525nm at 19.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 10,616 tons

Complement:
   1,515 - 1,970

Cost:
   £5.816 million / $23.265 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,978 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 12,490 tons, 28.5 %
      - Belts: 5,071 tons, 11.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 742 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armament: 2,718 tons, 6.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,612 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 348 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 4,471 tons, 10.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,761 tons, 38.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7,666 tons, 17.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     61,100 lbs / 27,715 Kg = 32.8 x 15.5 " / 394 mm shells or 10.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.4 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.548
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.71 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 29.75 degrees
   Stern overhang: -8.00 ft / -2.44 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Stern:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.80 ft / 6.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 65,076 Square feet or 6,046 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs/sq ft or 967 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.06
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[mentat]

We like bigger guns   ;D  - big improvement on the earlier designs

Qn - on the huge range !!! - and deck armour a bit on the thin side vs 14-15" firepower she could be up against ...

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd have thought the range to be excessive - Rohan has no overseas interests, and Central America's not that far away.

[Tanthalas]

The Range is a bit on the long side (intentionaly however), as for the Deck a 3" deck is plenty in the pre Dive Bomber world (infact its the heaviest deck Rohan has used on any warship)

[The Rock Doctor]

So what's the rationale for the range, then?

[Walter]

To terrorise GC waters for a long period of time no doubt. :D

[Tanthalas]

So what's the rationale for the range, then?

I wanted them to be able to do their max speed for an extended period of time.  so even if there are faster ships out there, they cant realy run with them you follow?

[The Rock Doctor]

How long does the current bunkerage give you at flank speed?

[Tanthalas]

How long does the current bunkerage give you at flank speed?

about 3K miles @ 28 knots, or around 100 hours.  Not all that much if I have to chase someone down, or have someone determind to chase me down.

[The Rock Doctor]

If you haven't broken contact after four nights, you deserve to run out of gas and be captured.

Having said that, I'm tinkering with a dispatch boat that fits our destroyer rules, yet is the size of a cruiser.  You can imagine how much fuel that one's lugging around.