Ottoman Light Cruiser Design Contest

[Korpen]

Intended operational cruising speed is not the same as the speed used in the springsharp IMO.

There we simply disagree. I view the number put in the cruise field as a declaration "this is our expected standard cruise speed", so I put the number in I expect to cruise at.

Very well; still, it cannot hurt to include the range at the "baseline" speed in the notes, for ease of comparison. :)

My own 165mm design, In effect gutted the range to upgun the ship.

Barbarossa, Turky Cruiser laid down 1916

Displacement:
   7 250 t light; 7 571 t standard; 8 296 t normal; 8 876 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   531,50 ft / 531,50 ft x 55,12 ft x 20,23 ft (normal load)
   162,00 m / 162,00 m x 16,80 m  x 6,17 m

Armament:
      10 - 6,50" / 165 mm guns (5x2 guns), 136,69lbs / 62,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
      1 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm guns in single mounts, 19,84lbs / 9,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on centreline amidships, 1 raised gun
   Weight of broadside 1 387 lbs / 629 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,95" / 75 mm   421,92 ft / 128,60 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 122 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2,95" / 75 mm   0,98" / 25 mm      1,97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 4,92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 69 174 shp / 51 604 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 306 tons

Complement:
   434 - 565

Cost:
   £1,245 million / $4,979 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 174 tons, 2,1 %
   Armour: 1 194 tons, 14,4 %
      - Belts: 579 tons, 7,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 79 tons, 0,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 493 tons, 5,9 %
      - Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0,5 %
   Machinery: 2 577 tons, 31,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 954 tons, 35,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 046 tons, 12,6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 351 tons, 4,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6 321 lbs / 2 867 Kg = 46,1 x 6,5 " / 165 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 14,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,490
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,43 ft / 7,75 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18,86 ft / 5,75 m
      - Mid (75 %):      18,86 ft / 5,75 m (10,66 ft / 3,25 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10,66 ft / 3,25 m
      - Stern:      10,66 ft / 3,25 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,34 ft / 5,29 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139,4 %
   Waterplane Area: 19 342 Square feet or 1 797 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 459 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,40
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

- 100 on FC
- 25 ton large radio
- 10 ton torpedos
- 216 ton mines or cargo

[mentat]

I'm wondering if we are getting near a conclusion.

There seem to be  3 interesting choices:

  A. The shorter range 'Gunship' style with more firepower - 10 x 165mm

  B. The beautifully balanced Bavarian with 10 x 150mm, great handling and longer range
      (maybe 31 knots is possible with reduced range but no other changes)

  C. Korpen's first design - the long range Raider/Fast Minelayer

   Have the Sultan's Naval Advisers reached a decision  :) ??


 

[miketr]

Well the 165mm designs are out of it because the Sublime Porte couldn't do a deal for buying such weapons from France.   Which puts it back to one of the 150mm designs.  I suspect that something like Korpen's raider design will win out as currently the Ottomans have 2 older cruisers tasked with the mission out of the Red Sea and Gulf so replacing them with such a design has merit and they would be useful station flag ships.

[Korpen]

Have there been any considerations of even larger guns then 165mm? If one really wants to outgun opposing cruiser something around 20cm could be quite effective.

[mentat]

Yes - I did look at that - but I think can only carry 6 x 7.5" or 5 x 8"

  I don't fancy it on those numbers

The real world Russian 180mm might fit - but I don't think anyone has in Nverse?

[Korpen]

Yes - I did look at that - but I think can only carry 6 x 7.5" or 5 x 8"

  I don't fancy it on those numbers

The real world Russian 180mm might fit - but I don't think anyone has in Nverse?

Bavaria uses a 18cm gun, brand new design.

[Korpen]

Just a sim of what an 18cm ship could look like. I went with a "Tre Kronor"-style gun arrangement (triple tower forward, a twin superfiring a triple aft), as that look cool. I know she is a bit over budget however, but the only thing one can really cut is the speed.

She looses most of the minelaying capacity to get the 250ton FC, but I think it might be worth it.

Barbarossa, Ottoman kryssare laid down 1916

Displacement:
   7 700 t light; 8 119 t standard; 9 063 t normal; 9 818 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   519,36 ft / 519,36 ft x 52,82 ft x 22,31 ft (normal load)
   158,30 m / 158,30 m x 16,10 m  x 6,80 m

Armament:
      8 - 7,09" / 180 mm guns (3 mounts), 177,95lbs / 80,71kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (1x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
      12 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1 918 lbs / 870 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 210

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,95" / 75 mm   380,58 ft / 116,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 113 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4,72" / 120 mm   2,17" / 55 mm      3,15" / 80 mm
   2nd:   2,76" / 70 mm   1,57" / 40 mm      2,76" / 70 mm
   3rd:   2,76" / 70 mm   1,57" / 40 mm      2,76" / 70 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 7,09" / 180 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 65 297 shp / 48 711 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 10 015nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 699 tons

Complement:
   463 - 603

Cost:
   £1,328 million / $5,312 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 240 tons, 2,6 %
   Armour: 1 472 tons, 16,2 %
      - Belts: 529 tons, 5,8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 336 tons, 3,7 %
      - Armour Deck: 542 tons, 6,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 66 tons, 0,7 %
   Machinery: 2 433 tons, 26,8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 230 tons, 35,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 363 tons, 15,0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 325 tons, 3,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 704 lbs / 3 495 Kg = 43,3 x 7,1 " / 180 mm shells or 1,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 2,3 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 14,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,70
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,518
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,83 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,79 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Mid (62 %):      19,69 ft / 6,00 m (11,48 ft / 3,50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
      - Stern:      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,05 ft / 5,50 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112,4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 138,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 18 588 Square feet or 1 727 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 493 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,61
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[miketr]

A nice design Korpen but the Ottomans I think will stick with their tried and tested 150mm weapons.  Perhaps down the road I should have them research a larger weapon.

[Guinness]

I somehow missed the 150mm requirement. Here's two new submissions from Newport News Shipbuilding in the CSA. The first is intended to illustrate what might be possible with more economy. The second is a more "all out" submission.

Note that both tend to carry on the current Confederate emphasis on generally good seakeeping for it's cruisers. Light guns used are Confederate models, but can be easily substituted.

CSS Submission for Ottoman Cruiser, Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   6,345 t light; 6,559 t standard; 7,071 t normal; 7,482 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   516.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   157.28 m / 152.40 m x 15.24 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      2 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 622 lbs / 282 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 209
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   408.50 ft / 124.51 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 126 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      1.50" / 38 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 66,000 shp / 49,236 Kw = 31.01 kts
   Range 6,160nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 923 tons

Complement:
   385 - 501

Cost:
   £1.148 million / $4.594 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 78 tons, 1.1 %
   Armour: 1,057 tons, 14.9 %
      - Belts: 692 tons, 9.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 19 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 323 tons, 4.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,459 tons, 34.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,490 tons, 35.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 727 tons, 10.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 261 tons, 3.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,471 lbs / 2,481 Kg = 53.1 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 81 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.13 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.50 ft / 8.08 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (48 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.50 ft / 4.72 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.34 ft / 5.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 125.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,447 Square feet or 1,621 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 395 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.88
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weights:
100t: Fire Control
100t: Mines
25t: Long Range Marconi
12t: 6 Torpedoes
24t: Reserve

Range at 10 knots: 9080 nm
Range at 15 knots: 3720 nm
Range at 25 knots: 983 nm
Range at top speed: 515 nm or 16.6 hours

CSS Submission for Ottoman Cruiser Bigger, Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7,040 t light; 7,314 t standard; 7,945 t normal; 8,451 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   546.00 ft / 530.00 ft x 53.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   166.42 m / 161.54 m x 16.15 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
     10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,034 lbs / 469 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   424.50 ft / 129.39 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      1.50" / 38 mm

  - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 70,000 shp / 52,220 Kw = 31.10 kts
   Range 7,080nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,137 tons

Complement:
   420 - 547

Cost:
   £1.309 million / $5.237 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 129 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 1,140 tons, 14.4 %
      - Belts: 721 tons, 9.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 31 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 363 tons, 4.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,608 tons, 32.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,909 tons, 36.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 906 tons, 11.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 253 tons, 3.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,759 lbs / 3,066 Kg = 65.6 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.02 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.13 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.50 ft / 8.08 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (53 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.50 ft / 4.72 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.73 ft / 6.01 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,604 Square feet or 1,821 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 87 lbs/sq ft or 426 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.67
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weights:
100t: Fire Control
100t: Mines
25t: Long Range Marconi
12t: 6 Torpedoes
16t: Reserve

Range at 10 knots: 10400 nm
Range at 15 knots: 4297 nm
Range at 25 knots: 1155 nm
Range at top speed: 602 nm or 19.3 hours

[Sachmle]

Another Brandenburg submission.

Istanbul, Ottoman Light Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7,250 t light; 7,569 t standard; 8,260 t normal; 8,813 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.75 ft / 551.18 ft x 62.34 ft x 16.08 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 168.00 m x 19.00 m  x 4.90 m

Armament:
      10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 13.23lbs / 6.00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
      4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,083 lbs / 491 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   4 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   413.39 ft / 126.00 m   10.66 ft / 3.25 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm         -         1.97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 66,827 shp / 49,853 Kw = 30.60 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,245 tons

Complement:
   433 - 563

Cost:
   £1.432 million / $5.727 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 135 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 1,084 tons, 13.1 %
      - Belts: 535 tons, 6.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 97 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 426 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,490 tons, 30.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,241 tons, 39.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,010 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 3.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,372 lbs / 3,797 Kg = 81.3 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.523
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.84 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.05 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.10 ft / -1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.25 ft / 8.00 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   22.15 ft / 6.75 m (19.69 ft / 6.00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (60 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m (15.75 ft / 4.80 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.14 ft / 5.83 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 23,390 Square feet or 2,173 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 457 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.26
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[TexanCowboy]

A proposal from the shipbuilders at Masahri.

Ankara, Ottoman Empire Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7,224 t light; 7,475 t standard; 8,171 t normal; 8,729 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   506.49 ft / 500.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   154.38 m / 152.40 m x 15.24 m  x 6.10 m

Armament:
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 2.99" / 76.0 mm guns in single mounts, 13.39lbs / 6.08kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      20 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 988 lbs / 448 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes, 2 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   470.00 ft / 143.26 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 145 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.45" / 37 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77,897 shp / 58,112 Kw = 31.50 kts
   Range 7,800nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,254 tons

Complement:
   429 - 558

Cost:
   £1.387 million / $5.548 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 123 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 1,438 tons, 17.6 %
      - Belts: 833 tons, 10.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 100 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 478 tons, 5.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,902 tons, 35.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,461 tons, 30.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 947 tons, 11.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 3.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,587 lbs / 2,080 Kg = 44.5 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.72

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.572
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (4 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Quarterdeck (4 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.03 ft / 4.58 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 135.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,811 Square feet or 1,655 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 420 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.16
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Kaiser Kirk]

Heh Miketr wanted options..boy howdy he got em.

[mentat]

Nice work on the 8x180mm - really packs some firepower for a smallish fast cruiser ;D
possible to twiddle for 31 knots - lose some range, sec guns and reduce sec gun armour?

[miketr]

The idea of a 180 or 165mm guns have merit...  I think I will have the Turks work on weapon in that size class so in the long term they can build something in that size class.  Perhaps a 200mm weapon would be a nice break point between their 150mm and 280mm weapons.  Sill any larger gun is going to be a future design.

A request for Desertfox on his design here...

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=4057.msg44604#msg44604

Decrease the thickness of the belt to 75mm and could you get 3 meter or even a 3.5 meter belt?

Also number of Torpedo's is high for the Ottomans.  Reduce the number to 8 please.

Korpen...

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=4057.msg44601#msg44601

Like the design but not a fan of the weapon layout...  What ship is this like?  I am not following you here.  A picture of the layout would help me understand it.

I think I am going to have these 2 ships replace the pair of cruisers the Ottomans have in the Red Sea.
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=795.msg5250#msg5250

This will give the Ottomans some modern firepower in the Red Sea and Persian Gulf. 

[TexanCowboy]

Buy those for scraping for a $1.