Brandenburg Schlachtkreuzer 1917

[Sachmle]

Schlachtkreuzer F, Brandenburg Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   34,000 t light; 35,390 t standard; 37,685 t normal; 39,521 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.78 ft / 714.80 ft x 102.17 ft x 30.61 ft (normal load)
   220.00 m / 217.87 m x 31.14 m  x 9.33 m

Armament:
      8 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,322.77lbs / 600.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      14 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     14 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      10 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      12 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,370 lbs / 5,611 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   5 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   478.02 ft / 145.70 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   236.75 ft / 72.16 m   12.01 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   298.98 ft / 91.13 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.77" / 45 mm   478.02 ft / 145.70 m   35.27 ft / 10.75 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   7.68" / 195 mm      13.8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   5.91" / 150 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 14.96" / 380 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 114,000 shp / 85,044 Kw = 28.01 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,131 tons

Complement:
   1,352 - 1,758

Cost:
   £5.594 million / $22.377 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,538 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 14,853 tons, 39.4 %
      - Belts: 6,314 tons, 16.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,105 tons, 2.9 %
      - Armament: 3,218 tons, 8.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,854 tons, 10.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 362 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 4,247 tons, 11.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,911 tons, 34.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,685 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     52,487 lbs / 23,808 Kg = 40.1 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 8.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 17.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.590
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.10 ft / -1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.02 ft / 8.54 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.02 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (70 %):      24.02 ft / 7.32 m (16.01 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.93 ft / 6.69 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 52,916 Square feet or 4,916 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 176 lbs/sq ft or 858 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.26
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Guinness]

Whoo! BCs are getting expensive! Of course, this is armored much the same at the last 13.5" armed Confederate BBs too...

I think she's a good ship. A trade off that might be available is giving up some armor and some of those 105mms for a little bit more freeboard. This may or may not improve stability. Also I suspect that if you raised the bow about another 1/3 or half a meter, it would lose the "wet forward" warning.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I agree with Guiness - the belt can be trimmed to 13", and the turret face to 13,8".
Borys

[Sachmle]

How's this?

Schlachtkreuzer F, Brandenburg Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   33,580 t light; 34,970 t standard; 37,686 t normal; 39,859 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.77 ft / 714.80 ft x 102.69 ft x 30.61 ft (normal load)
   220.00 m / 217.87 m x 31.30 m  x 9.33 m

Armament:
      8 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,322.77lbs / 600.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      14 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     14 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      10 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      12 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,370 lbs / 5,611 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   5 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.6" / 320 mm   478.02 ft / 145.70 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   236.75 ft / 72.16 m   12.01 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   298.98 ft / 91.13 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   478.02 ft / 145.70 m   35.27 ft / 10.75 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   7.48" / 190 mm      12.6" / 320 mm
   2nd:   5.91" / 150 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      1.97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 12.99" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 114,000 shp / 85,044 Kw = 28.02 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,889 tons

Complement:
   1,352 - 1,758

Cost:
   £5.567 million / $22.270 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,538 tons, 4.1 %
   Armour: 14,337 tons, 38.0 %
      - Belts: 5,927 tons, 15.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,228 tons, 3.3 %
      - Armament: 3,004 tons, 8.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,863 tons, 10.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 315 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 4,247 tons, 11.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,008 tons, 34.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,106 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     52,665 lbs / 23,889 Kg = 40.3 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 8.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 17.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.587
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.96 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.08 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.10 ft / -1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.02 ft / 9.15 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   26.02 ft / 7.93 m (24.02 ft / 7.32 m aft of break)
      - Mid (70 %):      24.02 ft / 7.32 m (16.01 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.33 ft / 6.81 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 53,038 Square feet or 4,927 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 176 lbs/sq ft or 861 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

250t FC
25t LR W/T
50t 25 2t 50cm Torpedoes, 5 per tube.
25t Heulsmeyer "Radar"
50t Reserve Weight

[Guinness]

Very nice. I like it.

[maddox]

Sleek machine. She looks as if she cuts the sea.

[P3D]

I'd build the original version.

[Sachmle]

For the hell of it, here's version 3 and 4.

V3 - Minor working of the armor

Schlachtkreuzer F, Brandenburg Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   32,776 t light; 34,148 t standard; 36,830 t normal; 38,976 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.77 ft / 714.80 ft x 102.69 ft x 30.02 ft (normal load)
   220.00 m / 217.87 m x 31.30 m  x 9.15 m

Armament:
      8 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,322.77lbs / 600.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      14 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     14 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      10 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      12 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12,370 lbs / 5,611 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   5 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.8" / 300 mm   478.02 ft / 145.70 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.54" / 90 mm   236.75 ft / 72.16 m   12.01 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   5.91" / 150 mm   298.98 ft / 91.13 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.77" / 45 mm   478.02 ft / 145.70 m   34.68 ft / 10.57 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   5.91" / 150 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 114,000 shp / 85,044 Kw = 28.12 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,828 tons

Complement:
   1,329 - 1,728

Cost:
   £5.516 million / $22.065 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,538 tons, 4.2 %
   Armour: 13,741 tons, 37.3 %
      - Belts: 5,625 tons, 15.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,087 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armament: 2,845 tons, 7.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,856 tons, 10.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 329 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 4,247 tons, 11.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,849 tons, 34.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,055 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     51,115 lbs / 23,186 Kg = 39.1 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 8.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 17.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.585
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.96 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.08 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.10 ft / -1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.02 ft / 9.15 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   26.02 ft / 7.93 m (24.02 ft / 7.32 m aft of break)
      - Mid (70 %):      24.02 ft / 7.32 m (16.01 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.33 ft / 6.81 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 52,937 Square feet or 4,918 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 855 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.28
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

250t FC
25t LR W/T
50t 25 2t 50cm Torpedoes, 5 per tube.
25t Heulsmeyer "Radar"


V4 - Better armor than Tiger, but light by my liking. However 30kts.

Schlachtkreuzer F, Brandenburg Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   30,200 t light; 31,482 t standard; 34,031 t normal; 36,070 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.77 ft / 714.80 ft x 102.69 ft x 30.02 ft (normal load)
   220.00 m / 217.87 m x 31.30 m  x 9.15 m

Armament:
      8 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,322.77lbs / 600.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 11,817 lbs / 5,360 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90
   3 - 19.7" / 500 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   488.29 ft / 148.83 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   2.95" / 75 mm   226.48 ft / 69.03 m   12.01 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   3.94" / 100 mm   298.98 ft / 91.13 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.77" / 45 mm   488.29 ft / 148.83 m   30.02 ft / 9.15 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.2" / 260 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 11.02" / 280 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 140,000 shp / 104,440 Kw = 30.11 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,588 tons

Complement:
   1,252 - 1,628

Cost:
   £5.491 million / $21.966 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,468 tons, 4.3 %
   Armour: 10,677 tons, 31.4 %
      - Belts: 4,490 tons, 13.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 961 tons, 2.8 %
      - Armament: 2,203 tons, 6.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,774 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 249 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 5,216 tons, 15.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,529 tons, 36.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,831 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 310 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     40,869 lbs / 18,538 Kg = 31.2 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 17.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.541
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.96 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 13.08 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.10 ft / -1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.02 ft / 9.15 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   26.02 ft / 7.93 m (24.02 ft / 7.32 m aft of break)
      - Mid (70 %):      24.02 ft / 7.32 m (16.01 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.33 ft / 6.81 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 50,775 Square feet or 4,717 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 177 lbs/sq ft or 863 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.34
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

250t FC
25t LR W/T
10t 5 2t 50cm Torpedoes, 2 per side tube, 1 bow tube.
25t Heulsmeyer "Radar"

[Borys]

No.2

[Sachmle]

No.2

Is 2000nm range and 420t weight saving really worth the decrease in armor?

[Borys]

No.2

Is 2000nm range and 420t weight saving really worth the decrease in armor?

IMO yes - I consider such armour to be fully adequate. No.3 and No.4 are too thinly protected, while No.1 too thickly.

Borys

[mentat]

No 1 is a BEAST  - gets my vote  ;D

[Korpen]

Number 4: It is the fastest one, and the only one that got an edge on older BC as well as cruisers of all sorts. It also got a very nice range. Being cheapest is a bonus.

The 34kton version I think is undergunned and a bit slow given the size.

[Valles]

I'd go for Number 1; a 30+ kton ship that can't stand in the line is a flat waste of money, and while No 2, in particular, could probably manage without embarrassing herself, No 1 is by far the best at that.

...And you can trust me on this because I have every intention of stealing her when I eat you, so it's in my best interests, no? ^_^

[The Rock Doctor]

Can I request the SS for a compromise version?  Take hull number one, bring her up to 29 knots, and trim back either belt or deck thickness to keep hull strength at 1.00.