CSA 1917 New Designs

[ctwaterman]

 :'(  I want some but I dont know If I will be able to afford them.... *sniff sniff*


Hmmm.... *shows up at the Confederate Capital*  Can I borrowed a cupful of 2nd Class Cruisers.... ;D

[mentat]

Apologies - think I may have found a flaw in your lovely Cavalry - Other Turret Armour - only 1" - this seems too thin vs. most cruiser gunfire

More interestingly - i am wondering why you have opted for 32 knots - the last 2 knots over 30 is always very costly

I looked at this since I have a similar design I like - only a tad bigger - more armour, 30 knots and 12 x 9.2" - which is pretty meaty vs Cruiser opposition

Unfortunately, I can't post the SS file but for comparison, key details are:

17,900 tons light

690 x 80 x 26
12 x 9.2"
12 x 5.1"
Broadside 5500lbs

Belt 8"
TB 1.2"
Turrets  8" 4" 7"
Deck 2.5"   CT 8"

Armour 25% of Wt

Misc Wt 300 tons

98.8k shp - 30 knots

13.5 k nm at 12 knots
Bunker 3825 tons
Surv. 26000 lbs 67 x 9.2 inch   3.7TTS

L:B 8.63 to 1
BC 0.508

Stab 1.07
Steadiness 70%
Seaboat 1.21

Recoil 0.63

Avge Frbd 21.8'

This design (Black Prince) is intended as Oversaas Station Flagship - somewhat different role and priority to your Fast Heavy Scouts - but although I like the Cavalry Officers - I actually think Black Prince has more all round combat capability

The comparison is interesting - any views ?   :)

[Guinness]

The CSA, at least so far, generally matches turret top thickness to main deck thickness. The sides and backs are less of a concern, as it is believed the turret faces would face the enemy in battle.

This could change, of course. In the case an extra inch probably could be worked in for the loss of some bunkerage, but Confederate designers haven't yet seen reason to depart from their standard.

As for speed: 32 knots with good seakeeping was the primary requirement, and driven by the desire to be able to outrun any reasonably sized battlecruiser.

[Guinness]

Taking the input I decided to tweak this a little. Updated SS is below, art will be updated sooner or later (there's just a minor tweak in the length of the weather deck which also requires the TT's to move aft a smidge).

In short, the barbettes are a little thinner, the turrets are quite a bit thicker, and I found half a foot of belt height, at the cost of a 130 t light and a little bit of bunkerage.

CSS Wheeler, CSA Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   16,500 t light; 17,208 t standard; 19,952 t normal; 22,148 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   686.00 ft / 670.00 ft x 75.33 ft x 26.61 ft (normal load)
   209.09 m / 204.22 m x 22.96 m  x 8.11 m

Armament:
     8 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (4x2 guns), 380.00lbs / 172.37kg shells, 1908 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     12 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns (6x2 guns), 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
     1 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
     2 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3,646 lbs / 1,654 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 147
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   435.50 ft / 132.74 m   16.50 ft / 5.03 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         1.50" / 38 mm
   3rd:         -      1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:         -      1.00" / 25 mm            -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 126,000 shp / 93,996 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 18,200nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,939 tons

Complement:
   839 - 1,091

Cost:
   £2.964 million / $11.854 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 471 tons, 2.4 %
   Armour: 3,699 tons, 18.5 %
      - Belts: 1,815 tons, 9.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 838 tons, 4.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 950 tons, 4.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 95 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 4,694 tons, 23.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,232 tons, 36.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,452 tons, 17.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 404 tons, 2.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     23,365 lbs / 10,598 Kg = 60.0 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.89 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.88 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.00 ft / 9.75 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Mid (69 %):      25.00 ft / 7.62 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (13 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   24.14 ft / 7.36 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,251 Square feet or 3,182 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 642 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weights:
250t: Fire Control
25t: Long Range Marconi
50t: Flag Facilities
12t: Torpedoes
67t: Reserve

Endurance:

24 hours at max speed + 8814 nm at 12 knots
or
24 hours at max speed + 5585 nm at 15 knots
or
24 hours at max speed + 2821 nm at 20 knots
or
24 hours at max speed + 1570 nm at 25 knots
or
1540.5 nm at max speed (48.1 hours)

[mentat]

  Yo - problem solved, I didn't like to think of them with thin turret tops - esp. with long range engagements in mind

  Look forward to new pic - any chance you can put them alongside Enterprise

  I'm thinking will look similarly handsome - like Bismarck and Prinz Eugen - confusion to the enemy  ;D


   ps - are there 31+ knot BCs now - or you thinking of future?

[Guinness]

 ps - are there 31+ knot BCs now - or you thinking of future?

There probably will be now...  ;)

[The Rock Doctor]

The Colombian Arquero class armored cruisers will make 31 kts, though they're broadly similar in capability to this class otherwise.

Edit:  Seems to me Orange was building genuine battlecruisers with that speed.

[Tanthalas]

The Colombian Arquero class armored cruisers will make 31 kts, though they're broadly similar in capability to this class otherwise.

Edit:  Seems to me Orange was building genuine battlecruisers with that speed.

Orange has/is building (not sure which) a 31 knot full on BC.  However if I remember right its going to be a Yard Quean (very light armor and it uses quads if I remember right)

[Guinness]

As requested, here's Enterprise and Wheeler:

[Tanthalas]

Whealer looks alot like what im doing with Asfalar, although she is a biger ship intended to fight ships like the Big E

[TexanCowboy]

As we say in Texas, "PURDY"

[mentat]

Very handsome ;D - maybe they can do World Cruise - like Hood and Repulse ...

[Nobody]

The Colombian Arquero class armored cruisers will make 31 kts, though they're broadly similar in capability to this class otherwise.

Edit:  Seems to me Orange was building genuine battlecruisers with that speed.

Orange has/is building (not sure which) a 31 knot full on BC.  However if I remember right its going to be a Yard Quean (very light armor and it uses quads if I remember right)

Well, if I read P3D's files correctly then Orange is building some 29 knots BCs - I might have overlooked something though.

[ctwaterman]

Thats Ok because a large ship with good sea keeping and often catch a faster ship with less sea keeping thats why my New Scout Cruisers are 32knots with good sea keeping as a priority over everything else.

So yes a 3 Knot advantage looks really good until you realize the Guy Chasing you is mounting 12" to 15" Guns with a range of over 24K yards.

[Borys]

So yes a 3 Knot advantage looks really good until you realize the Guy Chasing you is mounting 12" to 15" Guns with a range of over 24K yards.

And if you are taking minimal evasive action, every such shot will have one chance in hell of a hit ...
Borys