1917 Habsburg Panzerkreuzer

[The Bushranger]

Personally I have not decided if there is any use for this type of cruiser here. In RL they were usefull to some extent, but I've always read/heard that the 6" CL were just as effective as the 8" ones for less tonnage.

Well, the thing is, a fair bit of that might be hindsight - and there's also the pride factor. "Why," says somebody high up on the political food chain, "are we building ships with only 150mm guns when our rivals have cruisers with 203mm?".

This might, of course, also be known as the France Syndrome...


Although I really do like Rocky's idea. Then again the 240mm and 170-180mm calibres have always had an odd fascination for me.

[maddox]

Actualy, since Admiral Geon is "boss", the French ships are getting less extravagant.

For example. The Demarce series of Cruisers.

[The Rock Doctor]

Not in time to save me from the Brillante class battleships, though.

I'm tinkering with a "County"-like ship at the moment, though siting the airship mast has been problematic.

[The Rock Doctor]

Borys:  For laughs and giggles, consider:

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1916

Displacement:
   10,947 t light; 11,487 t standard; 12,601 t normal; 13,493 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   556.93 ft / 554.46 ft x 68.90 ft x 22.64 ft (normal load)
   169.75 m / 169.00 m x 21.00 m  x 6.90 m

Armament:
      4 - 7.48" / 190 mm guns (2x2 guns), 209.28lbs / 94.93kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      8 - 7.48" / 190 mm guns (4x2 guns), 209.28lbs / 94.93kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.31" / 135 mm guns in single mounts, 75.07lbs / 34.05kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      2 - 1.25" / 31.8 mm guns in single mounts, 0.98lbs / 0.45kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 3,114 lbs / 1,412 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.54" / 90 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   193.54 ft / 58.99 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
   Upper:   1.97" / 50 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 69,568 shp / 51,898 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,005 tons)

Complement:
   594 - 773

Cost:
   £1.770 million / $7.078 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 389 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 2,714 tons, 21.5 %
      - Belts: 1,337 tons, 10.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 560 tons, 4.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 748 tons, 5.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 69 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,652 tons, 21.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,857 tons, 38.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,654 tons, 13.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 335 tons, 2.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,464 lbs / 6,561 Kg = 69.1 x 7.5 " / 190 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 15.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.22 ft / 8.60 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.28 ft / 7.40 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.66 ft / 6.30 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 165.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,686 Square feet or 2,386 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 122 lbs/sq ft or 594 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.69
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Sachmle]

Or...for 850t more there is this.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1917

Displacement:
   11,830 t light; 12,476 t standard; 13,608 t normal; 14,513 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.75 ft / 551.51 ft x 77.10 ft x 21.16 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 168.10 m x 23.50 m  x 6.45 m

Armament:
      9 - 9.45" / 240 mm guns (3x3 guns), 418.88lbs / 190.00kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 5.31" / 135 mm guns in single mounts, 74.96lbs / 34.00kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 1.26" / 32.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.00lbs / 0.45kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm guns (4 mounts), 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1917 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 4,372 lbs / 1,983 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.13" / 105 mm   380.58 ft / 116.00 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   1.97" / 50 mm   170.93 ft / 52.10 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
   Upper:   1.97" / 50 mm   380.58 ft / 116.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.13" / 105 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      4.13" / 105 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -         0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 75,447 shp / 56,283 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,037 tons (25% coal)

Complement:
   629 - 818

Cost:
   £2.313 million / $9.252 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 550 tons, 4.0 %
   Armour: 2,938 tons, 21.6 %
      - Belts: 1,525 tons, 11.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 492 tons, 3.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 848 tons, 6.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 73 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,830 tons, 20.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,263 tons, 38.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,778 tons, 13.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,802 lbs / 6,260 Kg = 32.7 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 15.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.529
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.75 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.02 ft / 9.15 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   28.02 ft / 8.54 m (26.02 ft / 7.93 m aft of break)
      - Mid (35 %):      24.02 ft / 7.32 m (16.01 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.92 ft / 6.07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,107 Square feet or 2,704 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 616 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.53
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Korpen]

Thicker barbettes., fixed the f'castle error

Grafin von Mogami, Habsburgs Panzerkreuzer laid down 1917 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   14 153 t light; 14 842 t standard; 16 275 t normal; 17 422 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   555,54 ft / 555,00 ft x 80,50 ft x 25,50 ft (normal load)
   169,33 m / 169,16 m x 24,54 m  x 7,77 m

Armament:
      6 - 9,00" / 229 mm guns (3x2 guns), 380,00lbs / 172,37kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
      4 - 9,00" / 229 mm guns (2x2 guns), 380,00lbs / 172,37kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts

Why are you splitting the guns into two separate entries? Having ten guns in five turrets (two raised) will be more accurate as you get accurate magazine size (SS adds about 8% shells for 2nd battery), and there is no difference in armour.

[Borys]

Why are you splitting the guns into two separate entries? Having ten guns in five turrets (two raised) will be more accurate as you get accurate magazine size (SS adds about 8% shells for 2nd battery), and there is no difference in armour.

The split is an artifact of previous draughts of this design. In further work I will indeed combine them together.