GTB-1916

[Sachmle]

With the need for a fast torpedo craft with enough range to accompany the HSF the following design was drafted. While under gunned compared to the GTB 1912 class, the higher speed is considered more important for making successful torpedo attacks on newer, faster enemy vessels. Combining new turbines and deleting 1 10cm gun yeilded a 3.89 kt speed increase with the same range as the GTB 1912 class

GTB-1916, Deutscher Kaiserreich Großestorpedobooten laid down 1916

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,032 t standard; 1,162 t normal; 1,266 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   323.64 ft / 319.55 ft x 26.64 ft x 9.84 ft (normal load)
   98.65 m / 97.40 m x 8.12 m  x 3.00 m

Armament:
      3 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 33.07lbs / 15.00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 102 lbs / 46 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 32,329 shp / 24,117 Kw = 32.90 kts
   Trial Speed = 33.97 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 233 tons

Complement:
   99 - 129

Cost:
   £0.228 million / $0.910 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 14 tons, 1.2 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 661 tons, 56.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 306 tons, 26.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 162 tons, 13.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 12 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     254 lbs / 115 Kg = 7.2 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.18
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.88

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.485
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.88 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 79
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m (8.20 ft / 2.50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Stern:      8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.30 ft / 3.75 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 193.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,598 Square feet or 520 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 46 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 129 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.53
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Korpen]

With the need for a fast torpedo craft with enough range to accompany the HSF the following design was drafted. While under gunned compared to the GTB 1912 class, the higher speed is considered more important for making successful torpedo attacks on newer, faster enemy vessels. Combining new turbines and deleting 1 10cm gun yeilded a 3.89 kt speed increase with the same range as the GTB 1912 class

GTB-1916, Deutscher Kaiserreich Großestorpedobooten laid down 1916

Very nice ship for its purpose. Not much more then that to say. :)

What is the range at top speed?

EDIT: But I suspect one could get a bit more speed out of the ship at that tonnage... ;)

[Jefgte]

With the need for a fast torpedo craft with enough range to accompany the HSF the following design was drafted. While under gunned compared to the GTB 1912 class, the higher speed is considered more important for making successful torpedo attacks on newer, faster enemy vessels. Combining new turbines and deleting 1 10cm gun yeilded a 3.89 kt speed increase with the same range as the GTB 1912 class

Good choice & well balanced DD


;)

[Sachmle]

Well Korpen, here is the "ALL SPEED" version. Almost no firepower, but pretty dang fast.

GTB-1916, Deutscher Kaiserreich Großestorpedobooten laid down 1916

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,028 t standard; 1,157 t normal; 1,261 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   319.07 ft / 314.96 ft x 26.25 ft x 10.10 ft (normal load)
   97.25 m / 96.00 m x 8.00 m  x 3.08 m

Armament:
      2 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all forward
      2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
      2 - 0.35" / 8.8 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 47 lbs / 21 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 40,838 shp / 30,465 Kw = 34.67 kts
   Trial Speed = 35.83 kts
   Range 4,700nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 233 tons

Complement:
   98 - 128

Cost:
   £0.228 million / $0.914 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 6 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 713 tons, 61.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 269 tons, 23.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 157 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 12 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     190 lbs / 86 Kg = 9.1 x 3.5 " / 88 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.60

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.485
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 87
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.40 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (35 %):      16.01 ft / 4.88 m (8.01 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.01 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.81 ft / 3.29 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 203.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 58.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,433 Square feet or 505 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 37 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 127 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.09
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is extremely poor
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

[Korpen]

Well Korpen, here is the "ALL SPEED" version. Almost no firepower, but pretty dang fast.
Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
97.25 m / 96.00 m x 8.00 m  x 3.08 m
Block coefficient: 0.485

The BC is kind of high for such a fast ship.
What would happen if you increased draught by 20cm?

[The Rock Doctor]

I like the original; fast, yet with enough firepower to have a chance at fighting its way into torpedo range.

[Sachmle]

Well there is this one. I nice flush deck design w/ only 1kt less speed, but more range and more firepower.

Type 1916, Deutscher Kaiserreich Zerstörere laid down 1916

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,036 t standard; 1,228 t normal; 1,381 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   314.95 ft / 308.96 ft x 29.86 ft x 10.50 ft (normal load)
   96.00 m / 94.17 m x 9.10 m  x 3.20 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 144 lbs / 65 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 29,713 shp / 22,166 Kw = 31.85 kts
   Trial Speed = 32.88 kts
   Range 6,850nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 345 tons

Complement:
   103 - 134

Cost:
   £0.236 million / $0.946 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 1.5 %
   Machinery: 674 tons, 54.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 295 tons, 24.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 228 tons, 18.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 12 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     270 lbs / 123 Kg = 7.7 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 11.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.79

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.444
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.58 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 89
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.01 ft / 4.27 m
      - Mid (35 %):      12.01 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.01 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      8.01 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.77 ft / 3.59 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 189.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,854 Square feet or 544 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 52 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 134 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.24
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

OR Tweeked slightly:

Type 1916, Deutscher Kaiserreich Zerstörere laid down 1916

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,037 t standard; 1,230 t normal; 1,385 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   314.95 ft / 308.96 ft x 25.75 ft x 11.15 ft (normal load)
   96.00 m / 94.17 m x 7.85 m  x 3.40 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 144 lbs / 65 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 30,475 shp / 22,735 Kw = 32.03 kts
   Trial Speed = 33.07 kts
   Range 6,850nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 348 tons

Complement:
   103 - 135

Cost:
   £0.238 million / $0.952 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 1.5 %
   Machinery: 680 tons, 55.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 290 tons, 23.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 230 tons, 18.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 12 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     248 lbs / 112 Kg = 7.0 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.87

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.485
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.58 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 81
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.01 ft / 4.27 m
      - Mid (35 %):      12.01 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.01 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      8.01 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.77 ft / 3.59 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 190.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 60.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,230 Square feet or 486 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 51 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 127 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.52
      - Overall: 0.55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[Jefgte]

IMO,

-  1381tfl is better balanced

-  Test with a lower BC & a taller hull.


;)

[Sachmle]

I'm content w/ the hull height, the seakeeping is decent for a DD and any more freeboard would cost speed or range. As to the 1385tfl one, I like it better...same firepower, more speed and BETTER seakeeping to boot. Either way I'm laying down 10 (yes 10!) in 2/16.

[Jefgte]

If you decrease the BC, you have better seakeeping - better for the crew to work in heavy sea & better performances in actions.


;)

[Sachmle]

If you decrease the BC, you have better seakeeping - better for the crew to work in heavy sea & better performances in actions.


;)

How about this?

Type 1916v3, Deutscher Kaiserreich Zerstörere laid down 1916

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,036 t standard; 1,219 t normal; 1,365 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   351.88 ft / 347.77 ft x 29.53 ft x 10.33 ft (normal load)
   107.25 m / 106.00 m x 9.00 m  x 3.15 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.27lbs / 16.00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 144 lbs / 65 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 27,076 shp / 20,199 Kw = 32.05 kts
   Trial Speed = 33.05 kts
   Range 6,450nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 329 tons

Complement:
   103 - 134

Cost:
   £0.231 million / $0.925 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 2 tons, 0.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 651 tons, 53.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 317 tons, 26.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 219 tons, 18.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 12 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     318 lbs / 144 Kg = 9.0 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.51
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 9.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.402
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.78 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.40 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.01 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.01 ft / 4.27 m
      - Mid (35 %):      12.01 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.01 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      8.01 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.77 ft / 3.59 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 184.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 86.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,328 Square feet or 588 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 56 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.06
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

5mm 'armor' is weathershield for the gun crews only. It probably wouldn't stop a rifle round.

[maddox]

The main guns are a bit light to my taste, but for the rest, it looks good.

[Jefgte]

Well balanced.


;)

[Sachmle]

The main guns are a bit light to my taste, but for the rest, it looks good.

Well I tried to put 15cm guns on a DD once and everyone said it was to heavy and the ship to lively for 45kg shell handling. Since I don't currently have anything inbetween 10cm and 15cm I'm stuck w/ this for now. The next generation (circa 1919-20) will have 12-13cm guns and hopefully be 34+kts

[maddox]

Same problem as France then, nothing between the 105 and the 140mm.