Persian Destroyer 1916

[helgi]

DD1, Persia destroyer laid down 1916 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   665 t light; 693 t standard; 750 t normal; 795 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   328,66 ft / 328,08 ft x 26,25 ft x 9,84 ft (normal load)
   100,17 m / 100,00 m x 8,00 m  x 3,00 m

Armament:
      2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all forward
      2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft
   Weight of broadside 141 lbs / 64 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11 201 shp / 8 356 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 1 300nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 102 tons

Complement:
   71 - 93

Cost:
   £0,140 million / $0,560 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 2,4%
   Machinery: 339 tons, 45,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 258 tons, 34,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 85 tons, 11,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 6,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     265 lbs / 120 Kg = 7,5 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
   Roll period: 11,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,310
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12,50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (25%):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171,4%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103,7%
   Waterplane Area: 5 410 Square feet or 503 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 62%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 22 lbs/sq ft or 107 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,43
      - Longitudinal: 2,30
      - Overall: 0,51
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

25 t - Mines
25t - Radio set

[Borys]

You can bring her up to 750 tonnes light, as we use light in thresholds.

You should make the Cross-sectional strength 0,5

Apart from that, a typcal, overloaded destroyed with not enough deckspace for all those guns and torpedo tubes :) - don't worry too much about this comment, as I whine in this manner about 95% of destroyer designs posted here :D

Borys

[helgi]

Version 2

DD1, Persia destroyer laid down 1916 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   755 t light; 785 t standard; 841 t normal; 886 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   328,66 ft / 328,08 ft x 26,57 ft x 10,24 ft (normal load)
   100,17 m / 100,00 m x 8,10 m  x 3,12 m

Armament:
      2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all forward
      2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft
   Weight of broadside 141 lbs / 64 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12 169 shp / 9 078 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 1 200nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 101 tons

Complement:
   77 - 101

Cost:
   £0,156 million / $0,624 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 2,1%
   Machinery: 386 tons, 45,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 302 tons, 35,9%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 86 tons, 10,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 5,9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     313 lbs / 142 Kg = 8,9 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
   Roll period: 11,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,330
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12,35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (25%):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 95,3%
   Waterplane Area: 5 338 Square feet or 496 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 65%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 124 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 2,43
      - Overall: 0,58
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

25 t - Mines
25t - Radio set

[Borys]

Almost rules-observant. Try to lose those 5 tonnes :)

Borys

[helgi]

Version 3

DD1, Persia destroyer laid down 1916 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   749 t light; 779 t standard; 835 t normal; 880 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   328,66 ft / 328,08 ft x 26,57 ft x 10,24 ft (normal load)
   100,17 m / 100,00 m x 8,10 m  x 3,12 m

Armament:
      2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all forward
      2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft
   Weight of broadside 141 lbs / 64 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12 097 shp / 9 024 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 1 200nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 101 tons

Complement:
   76 - 100

Cost:
   £0,155 million / $0,620 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 2,1%
   Machinery: 384 tons, 46,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 303 tons, 36,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 86 tons, 10,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 5,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     316 lbs / 143 Kg = 8,9 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
   Roll period: 11,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,327
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12,35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,11 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (25%):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 170,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96,8%
   Waterplane Area: 5 349 Square feet or 497 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 65%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 124 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 2,45
      - Overall: 0,58
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

20 t - Mines
25t - Radio set

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Excellent N-verse destroyer.
Borys

[helgi]

Thanks :)

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Sorry - I just noticed.
I believe we might have to set aside misc weight for torpedos.
Borys

[helgi]

I think that 20 tonns is pretty enough for another 8 torpedo shots. Then 20 t for mines is 8 tonnes for reserve torpedoes and 12 tonns for 12 horn mines.

[hooper82]

Block coefficient: 0,327

I think the minimum Block Coefficient is 0.38?

[helgi]

Version 4

DD1, Persia destroyer laid down 1916 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   750 t light; 780 t standard; 836 t normal; 880 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   298,47 ft / 297,90 ft x 26,25 ft x 9,84 ft (normal load)
   90,97 m / 90,80 m x 8,00 m  x 3,00 m

Armament:
      2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all forward
      2 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1908 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all aft
   Weight of broadside 141 lbs / 64 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13 076 shp / 9 755 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 1 200nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 99 tons

Complement:
   77 - 101

Cost:
   £0,157 million / $0,629 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 2,1%
   Machinery: 393 tons, 47,0%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 295 tons, 35,3%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 85 tons, 10,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 45 tons, 5,4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     302 lbs / 137 Kg = 8,6 x 4,1 " / 105 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 1,0 ft / 0,3 m
   Roll period: 11,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 89 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,78

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,380
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11,35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17,26 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50%):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m (9,84 ft / 3,00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (25%):   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173,9%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77,1%
   Waterplane Area: 4 767 Square feet or 443 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 132 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,53
      - Longitudinal: 2,87
      - Overall: 0,63
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

20 t - Mines and Torpedoes
25t - Radio set

[Guinness]

yep. Now we're getting somewhere :)

One suggestion I have is to lower the freeboard quite a bit. How much is a matter for debate around here. Some (including Korpen and myself) consider a seaboat rating at top speed of less than 1.0 ok for a DD. Others prefer a bit more.

For raised forecastle designs, I generally shoot for two decks forward above the waterline, and one aft, or 16 feet before the fore break, and 8 after (ie ~ 4.8 meters forward, 2.4 aft, for you fancy metric people). So you've got quite similar deck heights here. What you can do to save some weight is move the mid break forward to around 30ish%. I'd put the saved weight straight into machinery and bunkerage.

Which brings me to the only real criticism: 1200 nm at 14 knots is pretty short legged.

[Jefgte]

I agree with Guinness,
increase range & decrease freeboard


;)

[P3D]

Have 2-2.5m freeboard aft, with an additional 2.5m step (one deck height) to the forecastle.

[helgi]

1200 nm for Persian Gulf quite enougth, isnt' it?