Small Multi-role Cruiser - Scout CruiseFlotilla Leader and Patrol/Convoy Escort

[mentat]

Another stab at ship designed to tackle a range of roles in its lifetime:

Early career

- primarily intended as Scout Cruiser to the Battle Fleet - find the enemy and report +  can support TBD flotillas in attack mode and has 8 TTs to contribute if required

Later Career - given good seakeeping and range provide second line long range patrolling support/convoy escort duty

(Shipping 6 x 5.5" should also be possible)

Sentinel II 9/03/09, BAE Scout Cruiser/Flotilla Leader laid down 1916

Displacement:
4,925 t light; 5,085 t standard; 5,600 t normal; 6,013 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
476.19 ft / 465.00 ft x 45.00 ft x 17.00 ft (normal load)
145.14 m / 141.73 m x 13.72 m  x 5.18 m

Armament:
      6 - 5.10" / 130 mm guns (3x2 guns), 70.00lbs / 31.75kg shells, 1916 Model   Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.50lbs / 3.86kg shells, 1916 Model
        Quick firing guns in deck mounts
      on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.20" / 30.5 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.85lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
   on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 461 lbs / 209 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 180
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts: Width (max)\Length (avg)\Height (avg)\
Main:\ 2.25" / 57 mm\ 371.00 ft / 113.08 m\ 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends:\ Unarmoured
  Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:\ Face (max)\ Other gunhouse (avg)\ Barbette/hoist (max)
Main:\2.25" / 57 mm\ 1.00" / 25 mm\1.50" / 38 mm
2nd:\ 0.70" / 18 mm\     
3rd:\ 0.40" / 10 mm\     

   - Armour deck: 1.20" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 51,788 shp / 38,634 Kw = 30.07 kts
Range 7,250nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 928 tons

Complement:
323 - 420

Cost:
'a30.799 million / $3.198 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 55 tons, 1.0 %
Armour: 785 tons, 14.0 %
- Belts: 405 tons, 7.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 36 tons, 0.6 %
- Armour Deck: 324 tons, 5.8 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,929 tons, 34.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,005 tons, 35.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 675 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
   4,638 lbs / 2,104 Kg = 69.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.551
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
  - Stem: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m\
    - Forecastle (20 %):\ 20.00 ft / 6.10 m\
   - Mid (50 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m\
   - Quarterdeck (15 %):\ 17.00 ft / 5.18 m\
   - Stern:\ 17.00 ft / 5.18 m\
    - Average freeboard:\ 18.37 ft / 5.60 m\

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112.3 %
Waterplane Area: 14,617 Square feet or 1,358 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 74 lbs/sq ft or 362 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.08
- Overall: 1.00

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



   - any use to anyone?

[mentat]

And for those that like a bit more 'meat on the bone' - it's Consort - 7000 ton Fleet Escort Cruiser

Armed with 10 x 5.5" and better protected as Primary Fleet Gun defence vs TBDs and can scrap with CLs


Scylla II 9/03/09, BAE Fleet Escort Cruiser laid down 1916

Displacement:
6,745 t light; 6,989 t standard; 7,657 t normal; 8,192 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
523.66 ft / 512.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 19.00 ft (normal load)
159.61 m / 156.06 m x 15.24 m  x 5.79 m

Armament:
      10 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (5x2 guns), 85.00lbs / 38.56kg shells, 1916 Model
      Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.50lbs / 3.86kg shells, 1916 Model
      Quick firing guns in deck mounts
      on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.20" / 30.5 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.85lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1916 Model
      Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     Weight of broadside 891 lbs / 404 kg
     Shells per gun, main battery: 180
      6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:Width (max)\ Length (avg)\Height (avg)
Main: 3.50" / 89 mm\ 400.00 ft / 121.92 m\ 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 1.50" / 38 mm\ 112.00 ft / 34.14 m\ 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Upper:\ 1.80" / 46 mm\ 200.00 ft / 60.96 m\ 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:\ Face (max)\ Other gunhouse (avg)\ Barbette/hoist (max)
Main:\2.75" / 70 mm\ 1.50" / 38 mm\ 2.50" / 64 mm
2nd:\ 0.70" / 18 mm     
3rd:\ 0.40" / 10 mm     


   - Armour deck: 1.60" / 41 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 60,290 shp / 44,976 Kw = 30.07 kts
Range 7,750nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,203 tons

Complement:
409 - 532

Cost:
'a31.051 million / $4.203 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 109 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 1,507 tons, 19.7 %
    - Belts: 862 tons, 11.3 %
    - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
    - Armament: 83 tons, 1.1 %
    - Armour Deck: 529 tons, 6.9 %
    - Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,246 tons, 29.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,682 tons, 35.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 913 tons, 11.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,594 lbs / 3,444 Kg = 91.3 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 14.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.551
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.24 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.63 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
    - Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
   - Forecastle (21 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
   - Mid (50 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
    - Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
  - Stern: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
  - Average freeboard: 19.40 ft / 5.91 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 130.4 %
Waterplane Area: 17,883 Square feet or 1,661 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 409 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.80
- Overall: 1.00


Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

6x13cm is the armament of a destroyer, won't add much to screen strength.
Second one is better, but has excessive freeboard for a 7000t cruiser.

[mentat]

 And to complete the Trio - 10,000 ton Trade Protection/General Combat Cruiser:

Intended primarily for Independent Operations - incl. chase down Raiders, but could also strengthen Fleet defences/Scouting forces

Firepower greatly increased vs. the Escort Cruiser - 8 x 170mm Main Armament particularly intended to give some edge in armour penetration, power and range over 5.5"/6" armed opposition


Bristol/Ceylon II  9/03/09

BAE 10000 ton Trade Protection/General Combat Cruiser laid down 1916

Displacement:
9,998 t light; 10,364 t standard; 11,216 t normal; 11,897 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
587.12 ft / 575.00 ft x 59.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
178.96 m / 175.26 m x 17.98 m  x 6.40 m

Armament:

     8 - 6.70" / 170 mm guns (4x2 guns), 170.00lbs / 77.11kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
     4 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.50lbs / 3.86kg shells, 1916 Model
      Quick firing guns in deck mounts
       on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 1.20" / 30.5 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.85lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     Weight of broadside 1,401 lbs / 635 kg
      Shells per gun, main battery: 180
     6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)

       Main: 4.50" / 114 mm 385.00 ft / 117.35 m 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
       Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 190.00 ft / 57.91 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
       Upper: 2.00" / 51 mm 180.00 ft / 54.86 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
       Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

  - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main:4.50" / 114 mm\ 1.80" / 46 mm\ 3.50" / 89 mm
2nd: 0.70" / 18 mm
3rd:  0.40" / 10 mm      

  - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77,540 shp / 57,845 Kw = 30.50 kts
Range 7,750nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,533 tons

Complement: 544 - 708
Cost:'a31.448 million / $5.792 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 155 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 2,524 tons, 22.5 %
   - Belts: 1,261 tons, 11.2 %
   - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   - Armament: 343 tons, 3.1 %
   - Armour Deck: 877 tons, 7.8 %
   - Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0.4 %
   -  Machinery: 2,889 tons, 25.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,060 tons, 36.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,218 tons, 10.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 370 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):                      13,071 lbs / 5,929 Kg = 86.9 x 6.7 " / 170 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes

Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
 Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23


Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.551
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.98 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57

Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
   - Stem: 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
  - Forecastle (25 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
   - Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   - Quarterdeck (15 %):20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   - Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   - Average freeboard: 21.43 ft / 6.53 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.3 %
Waterplane Area: 23,698 Square feet or 2,202 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 495 Kg/sq metre

Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.57
- Overall: 1.00


Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[mentat]

Thanks for feedback - the Scout Cruisers are intended primarily for armed reconnaissance rather than combat - a crucial role for the Battle fleet pre radar/reliable all-weather planes

4 per Battle Fleet in the Scouting screen could be very useful - working with 1/2 Hvy Scouting partners

Idea is that they perform this as economically as possible + can be tasked to support DDs in attack as well as perform lots of other 2nd line functions where DDs lack range/sea-keeping - freeing up other bigger cruisers for more serious work

i.e. a small group of ships intermediate between most cruisers and destroyers are inherently useful in a fleet composition


I think would be a very useful 'low' component in a sensible hi-low cruiser mix

The 5.1s are 70lb (rather than 60lb) - but agree that 85lb 5.5s would be better - should be no problem, further upgrade possibilty is 7 x 5.5 (2x2, 3x1) - I'll check it out but not keen to increase costs/topweight too much - the $$$ are rightly earmarked for the bigger more battleworthy stuff !!

The other idea/topweight item (I forgot to mention) to help them in their reconaissance work is including a telescopic viewing periscope - attached to rear of bridge structure maybe extending up to 20/30' above top of bridge structure

(In terms of simming this - maybe add 30 tons wt to CT armour - which is also set high, most of the weight would be at this level)

Idea is similar to both Sub. periscopes and also the Viewing periscopes used by Army to observe enemy lines/trenches in WW1 - I think they (land based) were up to 60' high - and very useful.

Interesting idea to explore, I think some advantages vs. conventional crows nest:

    - retractable/adjustable vs. sea conditions - can be withdrawn in v. heavy seas/storm conditions

    - potentially higher up (in most sea states) than actually having someone climb mast on small ship in v.bad condns for doing so - poor sods!)

    - can build-in magnification lens eqpmt

    - manned from rear of bridge/chartroom level - easy for 24/7

  As far as I know it was never tried out - anybody have any info. on anything similar?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I don't mind the calibre. I myself "designed" 5,3"/75lbs guns. But the ships are IMO undergunned, in the sense "too few guns on that displacement". I admit my ships are slightly slower, but I have 4000 tonnes ships with 5x6". Or, at 9000 tonnes, 4x2x7,5"/220lbs.  And IMO quite well protected.

Borys 

[Blooded]

Hello,

The CL periscope probably won't be the best idea. At 50-70' above the water, the ships roll will be substantially increased. Focusing on an object would be difficult. Uboats and land based scopes would not have that problem.

[mentat]

Difficulty in focusing - you're right lol - it would look neat and be cool to play with - but probably give everyone a headache!

I guess that's why no one trialled it!  ;D

[mentat]

  OK - bit of tweaking - here is uprated Scout Cruiser - now with 8 x 5.1" (70lb) - so hopefully that is a bit more respectable - esp as she is for armed recon. + support to DDs - not Cruiser combat

Details below -  and to put things in context - the $$ have been saved to help with having a Hvy Scouting Ship that will do the combat - Heavy Scouting BC Leopard - sharp claws !!

Leopard and Jaguar - would operate together as Heavy Scouting force - with 2/3 Lt Scout Cruisers each to provide a wide recon. net

Given their size they can:

1. Outclass any opposing Hvy Scouts - 6 x 15"  vs  9s - 12s currently?
2. Also have 10 x 6.7s vs CLs/TBDs
3. Backed up by 12 x 4.7s vs TBDs

  - basically -  they 'Kick Ass'  ;D

Given BB level protection they can also join the Battle Line - together adding 12 x 15".

They are big and expensive - but well worth it - would be kept very busy in the thick of things.

  (acknowledgement: Leopard design heavily influnced by the old S & G)


The upgraded Light Scouts:


Sentinel II  11 03 09, BAE Light Scouting Cruiser laid down 1916

Displacement: 4,901 t light; 5,075 t standard; 5,590 t normal; 6,002 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
477.76 ft / 465.00 ft x 45.00 ft x 17.00 ft (normal load)
145.62 m / 141.73 m x 13.72 m  x 5.18 m

Armament:

      8 - 5.10" / 130 mm guns (4x2 guns), 70.00lbs / 31.75kg shells, 1916 Model
  Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.50lbs / 3.86kg shells, 1916 Model
   Quick firing guns in deck mounts
  on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.20" / 30.5 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.85lbs / 0.39kg shells, 1916 Model
  Quick firing guns in deck mounts
  on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 601 lbs / 273 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

   - Belts:Width (max)\Length (avg)\ Height (avg)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm373.50 ft / 113.84 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: Unarmoured
   Main Belt covers 124 % of normal length
  Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces (only 7" missing - will sort it)

   - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
                 Main:\ 2.25" / 57 mm\1.00" / 25 mm 1.80" / 46 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.20" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm


Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 51,188 shp / 38,186 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 7,250nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 927 tons

Complement: 323 - 420

Cost:
   'a30.816 million / $3.263 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 71 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 748 tons, 13.4 %
    - Belts: 362 tons, 6.5 %
    - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
    - Armament: 42 tons, 0.7 %
    - Armour Deck: 324 tons, 5.8 %
    - Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,907 tons, 34.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,025 tons, 36.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 689 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
   4,414 lbs / 2,002 Kg = 66.6 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 13.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.56 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 28.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
    - Stem: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
    - Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
    - Mid (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
    - Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
    - Stern: 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
    - Average freeboard: 17.92 ft / 5.46 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 123.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.8%
Waterplane Area: 14,603 Square feet or 1,357 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 372 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.95
- Overall: 1.00

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



  And the Big Cats - with teeth and claws:

Leopard 9/03/09, BAE Heavy Scout Battle Cruiser 6 x 15s, 10 x 6.7s - 38k tons  laid down 1916

Displacement:
36,499 t light; 38,176 t standard; 40,226 t normal; 41,866 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
817.85 ft / 802.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 29.50 ft (normal load)
249.28 m / 244.45 m x 32.92 m  x 8.99 m

Armament:

      6 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,920.00lbs / 870.90kg shells, 1916 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
   on centreline ends, majority forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 6.70" / 170 mm guns (4x2 guns), 170.00lbs / 77.11kg shells, 1916 Model
   Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
   on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 6.70" / 170 mm guns (1x2 guns), 170.00lbs / 77.11kg shells, 1916 Model
   Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
   on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
      12 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.00lbs / 23.59kg shells, 1916 Model
   Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
   on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.50lbs / 3.86kg shells, 1916 Model
   Quick firing guns in deck mounts
  on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13,878 lbs / 6,295 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 435.00 ft / 132.59 m 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 367.00 ft / 111.86 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Upper: 4.00" / 102 mm 240.00 ft / 73.15 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Main Belt covers 83 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.70" / 43 mm 630.00 ft / 192.02 m 24.00 ft / 7.32 m

   - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
3rd: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
4th: 0.40" / 10 mm

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 119,864 shp / 89,419 Kw = 28.50 kts
Range 8,250nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,690 tons

Complement:
1,419 - 1,846

Cost:
  'a35.224 million / $20.897 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 1,536 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 13,229 tons, 32.9 %
    - Belts: 4,692 tons, 11.7 %
    - Torpedo bulkhead: 951 tons, 2.4 %
    - Armament: 2,830 tons, 7.0 %
    - Armour Deck: 4,477 tons, 11.1 %
    - Conning Tower: 278 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 4,466 tons, 11.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,718 tons, 41.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,727 tons, 9.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 550 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
   58,157 lbs / 26,380 Kg = 34.5 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 9.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 18.3 seconds
Steadiness\tab - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.551
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.43 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.32 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m

Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
    - Stem: 34.00 ft / 10.36 m
    - Forecastle (20 %): 28.00 ft / 8.53 m (24.00 ft / 7.32 m aft of break)
    - Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
    - Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
    - Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
    - Average freeboard: 22.68 ft / 6.91 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169.9 %
Waterplane Area: 60,505 Square feet or 5,621 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 203 lbs/sq ft or 989 Kg/sq metre\par
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.15
- Overall: 1.00

Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Korpen]

1. Outclass any opposing Hvy Scouts - 6 x 15"  vs  9s - 12s currently?
2. Also have 10 x 6.7s vs CLs/TBDs
3. Backed up by 12 x 4.7s vs TBDs

Well, it is both slower and fewer main guns then the latest Dutch ships....

I am not a fan of the three-tire distribution of armament, as the middle tire is too small to add anything in a fight against a major target (would mainly add confusion for the FC), and over kill against small targets. Think it is better to use that weight to add main guns, splitting fire and/or using SAP/CPC shells against lighter targets.

I rate all but the 5000ton ships as undergunned and over-armoured. Ten 14cm for an almost 7000ton and 8x17 for a 10k ship simply is not enough for a fight with existing ships in that size, or somewhat smaller. While the high speed is nice, if the ship have to turn tail against the most likely opponents one would be better of with a bunch of DDs anyway.

[mentat]

vs Heavy Scouts - mostly it is still 9"-12" ers and these are 2 ships working together - more than enough vs. most potential opponents

Other fast 15" armed opponents (there are v. few so far) are clearly in a different category, but:

- tactically - (as you can see - they are designed and tasked to tackle a number of large/mdm opponents not one v. large one) there is no need to tackle directly unless they have a clear advantage in any particular situation - e.g. 2 on 1 in this case - well war is war - who needs to fight fair ...

- the speed sitn - vs De Ruyter in this case - there is only 0.5 knots difference - not meaningful tactically; also Leopard design has longer hull, higher natural speed and considerably better sea-keeping - so in anything other than light sea the tiny advantage disappears and could even go -ve ...

- conclusion - real combat only occurs if both decide to do so

If for some reason - Commander of Leopard does 'fancy his chances' (and that would be against orders in this sitn) - he does have some cards to play:

i) Leopard has significantly better vertical protection - esp. 14" belt to 11" - giving wider immunity zone - esp. at useful battle ranges

ii) Leopard is a much steadier gun platform

iii) if they do 'get it down' at very effective battle range for the 15" - the 6.7s also get useful - whereas the 4.7s on both sides remain pretty irrelevant

  - if it happened - I think it would be an ugly/messy confrontation , but really I don't see it happening - it isn't required and it can't be forced without much more speed advtge .



3 Tier capability - in general I agree with you - but if well designed and fought it could be very useful - esp. in this role - opponents could come in different sizes and in a co-ordinated fashion - there are enough guns at each level (which are significantly different) to be effective - but it does need modern FC to control

- all in all - very different from the messy melee sitn with PDN type BBs

I did already post a more conventional design - Tiger - 34k tons, 8 x 13.5", strong protection, 28.5 knots - more to your liking I guess

The 3 tier approach is more of a challenge - and I guess a pet idea - I just like it :D

Guns vs. armour - the various designs have sufficient firepower for their alotted roles - but in each case tonnage did end up higher than expected/planned - hence negative comparisons from yourself and Borys

- apologies - I have just found an error in all of the designs - all gun mounts have been inputted above freeboard - will need to re-sim - this will help although clearly there is also some difference in design philosophy re: firepower vs armour vs speed - esp. re. likely tactical reqmts in coming years

  - that's good, it would be dull if we all had the same ideas  :)

[P3D]

For which nation you are designing these ships BTW?

[mentat]

Ships are not for any nation - I am poor stateless refugee! :)

So feel free to ignore me if you are busy - but hope the designs are interesting rather than boring

Re-simmed to correct the gun mount pos'ng error mentioned previously and this has a big impact on the larger designs:

Scout Cruiser - reduced topweight tonnage used to increase steadiness further, + 2 more TTs, added splinter upper belt (30mm) and increased range by 500 nm - all useful but no big changes

Escort Cruiser - now 12 x 5.5" on 7k tons std, also added 2 more TTs and upped range by 750nm

Trade Prot'n/Combat Cruiser - had a big impact and I also decided to split these into 2 different designs:

Trade Protection Cruiser for overseas - now a bit smaller at 9800 tons std and with 12x6.7" (4x3) giving 2000lb broadside, slightly reduced armour, inc. speed to 31.5 knots for their raider pursuit role and increased range to 10500 @ 12knots 

Fleet Combat Cruiser - possibly got carried away and made it a bit of a beast:

Now - 12300 tons std with 4400 lb broadside - 12 x 8.4" (4x3)  and 12 4.7" secrys , armour similar to before and speed at 30 knots

  - Correcting the error of excessive barbette/hoist armour wt - has greatly increased gun/tonnage ratio ;D

  - % armament much increased, % armour down somewhat - but all designs still 30+ knots - given the arrival of 28-30knot BCs, I think this is important in their expected 20+ year lifetimes .......