NUS planned BB for 1915.

[RAM]

After reviewing the recently laid down battleship by the NUS, the chief of the naval design bureau, Doctor Diego de Poza, decided to cancel it immediately. For three month works were stopped on the ship while a political battle raged within the ministry of defence between those who called for the ship to be cancelled and substituted by an improved design and those who thought the decision was a waste of the resources and money already allocated to the project.

However Dr de Poza got his way finally and the recently laid down battleship was cancelled for good, the used materials (in fact just the keel and little else) were retired from the slip. When the proposed substitute ship design was published yet another political battle ensued, as there was no slip or dock of enough size to build the battleship.
There were some flames erupting within the government establishment when the Minister of the navy asked for extra resources to be allocated to improve two existing slips to build the battleship class, and two docks for future refits/repairs.  The fact that the navy also asked for funds to develop a new mount to house three 13.5'' guns didn't help either.
But again, Dr. de Poza skillful maneouvering within the political scene and the argument that an increase of the naval infrastructure was needed anyway for projects to come won the day.

The design under all standards was an extraordinary improvement over the previously proposed battleship design. For a mere 2500 extra tons the ship offered 2 more knots, 3 extra main guns and a generally better protection. Given the delay involving the development of the proper infrastructures and main turrets, the whole project was delayed for a full year. The first ship of the class was to be laid down in August 1915.



independencia, NUS Battleship laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   27.400 t light; 29.077 t standard; 31.800 t normal; 33.978 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   678,37 ft / 672,57 ft x 97,11 ft x 30,18 ft (normal load)
   206,77 m / 205,00 m x 29,60 m  x 9,20 m

Armament:
      9 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1.230,19lbs / 558,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      4 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.230,19lbs / 558,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      18 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
      6 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1,00" / 25,4 mm guns in single mounts, 0,50lbs / 0,23kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 18.019 lbs / 8.173 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   3 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,4" / 340 mm   442,91 ft / 135,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   4,33" / 110 mm   226,38 ft / 69,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     3,28 ft / 1,00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4,33" / 110 mm   421,92 ft / 128,60 m   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,38" / 35 mm   442,91 ft / 135,00 m   23,79 ft / 7,25 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   7,87" / 200 mm      12,2" / 310 mm
   2nd:   13,8" / 350 mm   7,87" / 200 mm      12,2" / 310 mm
   3rd:   5,91" / 150 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 40.997 shp / 30.583 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 11.500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.901 tons

Complement:
   1.189 - 1.547

Cost:
   £4,480 million / $17,919 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.252 tons, 7,1 %
   Armour: 10.847 tons, 34,1 %
      - Belts: 4.369 tons, 13,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 537 tons, 1,7 %
      - Armament: 3.121 tons, 9,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.693 tons, 8,5 %
      - Conning Tower: 128 tons, 0,4 %
   Machinery: 1.635 tons, 5,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12.191 tons, 38,3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.400 tons, 13,8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 475 tons, 1,5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35.647 lbs / 16.169 Kg = 29,0 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 5,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
   Metacentric height 5,9 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 16,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,565
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25,93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21,65 ft / 6,60 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   21,65 ft / 6,60 m (13,45 ft / 4,10 m aft of break)
      - Mid (60 %):      13,45 ft / 4,10 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13,45 ft / 4,10 m
      - Stern:      13,45 ft / 4,10 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,50 ft / 4,73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99,6 %
   Waterplane Area: 46.210 Square feet or 4.293 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 197 lbs/sq ft or 963 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,11
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Misc weight:
250 tons FC
25 tons Marconi set
50 tons extra pumps
25 tons climatization
100 tons flagship installations
25 tons reserved for future development.


Thoughts/comments/Critics welcome.

[Sachmle]

Overall quite nice. I was never that big on such a low seakeeping w/ the S. Atlantic to run around in, but that' mostly due to the higher speed I'm sure. You'll need some positive bow angle to match the pic, and a little negative stern overhang, but that's minor stuff. You could increase the beam a little and try to get better stability or steadiness.

[RAM]

interesting comments Sachmle. Went back to springsharp to do some toying around, and for the first time since I'm an user of springsharp I've seen seakeeping attribute actually increasing when reducing lenght of the ship. Maybe there's a good reason for it, but for me (who have learned to use SS just by trial and error) it's something VERY surprising. Until now I assumed a lenght for a given speed and fixed it, if anything increasing it to improve seakeeping. Never the opposite...but it seems that lowering lenght has helped until I go down to some 188m, when seakeeping went down again. I fixed lenght at 190, and went on from there.

Cutting down 15m of ship lenght gave me enough structural strenght to allow for an increase of beam. Back to the drawing I decided to reduce the forecastle lenght to accomodate for the new lenght (and seeing the drawing I can honestly say I can't see anywhere else I could save lenght from). I then swapped upper and ends belts thickness (somehow I had mixed their thicknesses in the previous design). Finally adjusted trim a bit and...

here's the result:



Independencia, NUS Battleship laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   27.451 t light; 29.129 t standard; 31.825 t normal; 33.982 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   629,69 ft / 623,36 ft x 103,67 ft x 30,68 ft (normal load)
   191,93 m / 190,00 m x 31,60 m  x 9,35 m

Armament:
      9 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1.230,19lbs / 558,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      4 - 13,50" / 343 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.230,19lbs / 558,00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      18 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
      6 - 3,00" / 76,2 mm guns in single mounts, 13,50lbs / 6,12kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1,00" / 25,4 mm guns in single mounts, 0,50lbs / 0,23kg shells, 1909 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 18.019 lbs / 8.173 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   3 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,4" / 340 mm   436,35 ft / 133,00 m   13,12 ft / 4,00 m
   Ends:   4,33" / 110 mm   183,73 ft / 56,00 m   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
     3,28 ft / 1,00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   5,91" / 150 mm   420,28 ft / 128,10 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,38" / 35 mm   442,91 ft / 135,00 m   23,79 ft / 7,25 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   7,87" / 200 mm      12,2" / 310 mm
   2nd:   13,8" / 350 mm   7,87" / 200 mm      12,2" / 310 mm
   3rd:   5,91" / 150 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 5,91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 42.258 shp / 31.524 Kw = 22,00 kts
   Range 11.500nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.853 tons

Complement:
   1.190 - 1.548

Cost:
   £4,493 million / $17,971 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.252 tons, 7,1 %
   Armour: 11.056 tons, 34,7 %
      - Belts: 4.613 tons, 14,5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 537 tons, 1,7 %
      - Armament: 3.121 tons, 9,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2.657 tons, 8,4 %
      - Conning Tower: 128 tons, 0,4 %
   Machinery: 1.685 tons, 5,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11.983 tons, 37,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.374 tons, 13,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 475 tons, 1,5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34.869 lbs / 15.816 Kg = 28,3 x 13,5 " / 343 mm shells or 6,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
   Metacentric height 6,3 ft / 1,9 m
   Roll period: 17,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,562
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,01 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24,97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3,28 ft / -1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23,62 ft / 7,20 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   21,65 ft / 6,60 m (13,45 ft / 4,10 m aft of break)
      - Mid (60 %):      13,45 ft / 4,10 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13,45 ft / 4,10 m
      - Stern:      13,45 ft / 4,10 m
      - Average freeboard:   15,03 ft / 4,58 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 45.607 Square feet or 4.237 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 202 lbs/sq ft or 984 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,28
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Misc weight:
250 tons FC
25 tons Marconi set
50 tons extra pumps
25 tons climatization
100 tons flagship installations
25 tons reserved for future development.



As always, comments welcome.

[Jefgte]

A good gle concept

For a BB, that characts are better
"Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily"

Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20 min

Increase also the survivability.
You could certainly have 18.000kg


Jef  ;)

[maddox]

Why do I see 5 main gun turrets?

[RAM]

Why do I see 5 main gun turrets?

erm...because it has 5 main turrets? three triples (Fore, midships, aft) and two duples (superfiring fore and aft)

Jefgte, there's not much more I can do on that displacement. Any modification to get a better seakeeping or steadiness will cost me hull strenght I don't have, or retiring some armor/weapons/speed, none of them I want to do...
As it is, 60% steadiness and 1.12 seakeeping it's not bad at all.

[maddox]

oeps

[mentat]

13 main calibre - Sailors are known to be superstitious - do you have the option of 10 heavier calibre ditching the midships triple?

[maddox]

Andrea Doria setup.  Cool ship with loads of potential.

But is superstition is an issue, why not using a raised twin amidships? That will give you a broadside of 12 main guns.

[mentat]

Or with later engine tech an 80000shp version with 10 x 15" would be great - maybe make 24/25 knots?

[RAM]

yep, its a similar setup as that of the WW1 era italian BBs. 13 guns.

And can't really stuff much more into it, or the displacement would go off the roof. Keep in mind, the NUS is not an industrial superpower. I'll be hard pressed to build a couple of this ships, and they're 27.5k tonners in light displacement...

[Jefgte]

Better...

Actualy , you have:
"Block coefficient: 0,562
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,01 : 1"

Increase the Beam Ratio to 6.25 - 6.5 is certainly a possibility.


;)

[mentat]

I think maadox has a good point about raising the midships turret - midships freeboard is only 13' and the turret is forward facing - very exposed to heavy seas and spray - no one likes soggy gunports!

[Korpen]

I think maadox has a good point about raising the midships turret - midships freeboard is only 13' and the turret is forward facing - very exposed to heavy seas and spray - no one likes soggy gunports!

Do not think that is a problem, the gun is amidships behind the entire superstructure, the only thing that can make the gun wet is really sea-spray, and raising the gun will not change that.
Also the gun is 4m up, it is not "low" feeboard.

[RAM]

Better...

Actualy , you have:
"Block coefficient: 0,562
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,01 : 1"

Increase the Beam Ratio to 6.25 - 6.5 is certainly a possibility.


;)

Yes, I can reduce width to 30,4m to achieve that LtB ratio. But doing so I lose stability down to 1.08, and reduce the ammount of damage the ship can take (notably from torpedoes). Not only that, with that I can increase seakeeping to 1.18 before running into hull structural problems again. That's a 0.06 gain.
Not worth the pain.

I'd rather have 1.10 stability, 1.12 seakeeping, 60% steadiness than 1.08 stability, 1.18 seakeeping and 60% steadiness, not to count the reduced ability to stand damage.

The only way I can get out of this is increasing tonnage. And I'm not going that way. Or reducing armor/weapons/speed. And I'm not going that way either. The ship is as big as it will get, and with the current armor/Speed/weapons setup, which I'm not going to change for a lower rank, this is as good as it gets.