Persian CDBb

[ledeper]

Pad-I-Shah, Persia CDBb laid down 1916 (Engine 1906)

Displacement:
   8.847 t light; 9.520 t standard; 10.364 t normal; 11.040 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   389,03 ft / 387,14 ft x 85,30 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
   118,58 m / 118,00 m x 26,00 m  x 6,00 m

Armament:
      6 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 864,00lbs / 391,90kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      10 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 5.504 lbs / 2.497 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,0" / 254 mm   4,00" / 102 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 10,00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 17.894 shp / 13.349 Kw = 20,00 kts
   Range 5.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.520 tons

Complement:
   513 - 667

Cost:
   £1,719 million / $6,874 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 688 tons, 6,6 %
   Armour: 2.317 tons, 22,4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 925 tons, 8,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1.289 tons, 12,4 %
      - Conning Tower: 102 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 1.162 tons, 11,2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.380 tons, 42,3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.517 tons, 14,6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 2,9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11.868 lbs / 5.383 Kg = 13,7 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 5,7 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 15,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,558
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4,54 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21,65 ft / 6,60 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Stern:      13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Average freeboard:   14,41 ft / 4,39 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 23.220 Square feet or 2.157 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 729 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 2,10
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[Korpen]

Can Persia really afford a ship that it will take almost three years to build using all the county's heavy industry?

[ledeper]

Persia lack Bp`s so I believe it is an acceptable solution as it is a rather cheap design moneywise so it should be able to enhance Persias Bps by at least a half within the building period thus sucking up only Bps for 2 1/2 years

[Korpen]

Persia lack Bp`s so I believe it is an acceptable solution as it is a rather cheap design moneywise so it should be able to enhance Persias Bps by at least a half within the building period thus sucking up only Bps for 2 1/2 years

That is still quite allot for a very long time, and given the persian coast, i would recomen mine warfare shis above all else.

Also the lack of a belt armour basically makes the ship unfit for combat. if reducing the deck to about 1/3 (around 25-30mm) and thinning the barbaretts should allow for at least a 15cm belt. If nececery remove a gun turret and shrink her to about 5000 ton as well.

[ledeper]

Pushed down to 7000 tns,and as for mine ships Persia already has 4 Corvettes and 11 mine boats+9 Dd
Pad-I-Shah II, Persia CDBb laid down 1916 (Engine 1906)

Displacement:
   7.091 t light; 7.579 t standard; 8.307 t normal; 8.889 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   388,57 ft / 387,14 ft x 59,06 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
   118,44 m / 118,00 m x 18,00 m  x 6,00 m

Armament:
      4 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864,00lbs / 391,90kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      10 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 3.776 lbs / 1.713 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   230,31 ft / 70,20 m   11,09 ft / 3,38 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm   123,98 ft / 37,79 m   11,09 ft / 3,38 m
     32,84 ft / 10,01 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3,94" / 100 mm   230,31 ft / 70,20 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      7,87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 9,84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 10.077 shp / 7.517 Kw = 18,00 kts
   Range 5.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.310 tons

Complement:
   434 - 565

Cost:
   £1,205 million / $4,819 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 472 tons, 5,7 %
   Armour: 2.784 tons, 33,5 %
      - Belts: 1.548 tons, 18,6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 514 tons, 6,2 %
      - Armour Deck: 635 tons, 7,7 %
      - Conning Tower: 87 tons, 1,0 %
   Machinery: 654 tons, 7,9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.881 tons, 34,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.215 tons, 14,6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 3,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10.658 lbs / 4.834 Kg = 12,3 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 1,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
   Metacentric height 2,6 ft / 0,8 m
   Roll period: 15,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,84
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,48

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,646
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,56 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Stern:      13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Average freeboard:   13,99 ft / 4,26 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73,9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 17.450 Square feet or 1.621 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 563 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,86
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Korpen]

Pushed down to 7000 tns,and as for mine ships Persia already has 4 Corvettes and 11 mine boats+9 Dd

Yes, far too few. :)

Pad-I-Shah II, Persia CDBb laid down 1916 (Engine 1906)

As I think P3D pointed out, the engine year for the 1902 engine tech is 1905, not 1906.

And I still think you should shrink the ship about 2000 ton more.

[P3D]

The most obvious ways to save weight are:

- shorten the ship to 6:1 L:B or less, increase draught and beam slightly
- no need for upper belt, but 2 additional 4" would be great
- reduce ammo to 100 per gun
- range to 4000@12
- With the calm waters of the Persian Gulf and Arab Sea, freeboard can be reduced to ~3.5m. That translates to ~2.5-2.6m belt height

Then start thinking about the armor you really need. You want the ship vitals immune to armored cruiser fire (8-11") and the ends to 6"s. That means end armor of 3" and main belt 7-9" + sloped deck. You cannot afford to go against larger ships (and would be outmatched no matter what) so no need to armor against 12"+ shells. CT, barbette armor similar.

And about light ships. You need the critical mass.

[ledeper]

Pad-I-Shah II, Persia CDBb laid down 1916 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   6.048 t light; 6.406 t standard; 6.963 t normal; 7.409 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   355,48 ft / 354,33 ft x 59,06 ft x 20,51 ft (normal load)
   108,35 m / 108,00 m x 18,00 m  x 6,25 m

Armament:
      4 - 12,00" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 864,00lbs / 391,90kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      12 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 3.840 lbs / 1.742 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,86" / 225 mm   230,31 ft / 70,20 m   9,22 ft / 2,81 m
   Ends:   2,95" / 75 mm   123,98 ft / 37,79 m   9,22 ft / 2,81 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      7,87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   1,00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 9,84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 9.110 shp / 6.796 Kw = 18,00 kts
   Range 4.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.002 tons

Complement:
   380 - 495

Cost:
   £1,164 million / $4,657 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 480 tons, 6,9 %
   Armour: 2.044 tons, 29,4 %
      - Belts: 952 tons, 13,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 474 tons, 6,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 541 tons, 7,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 77 tons, 1,1 %
   Machinery: 690 tons, 9,9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.534 tons, 36,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 915 tons, 13,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 4,3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6.946 lbs / 3.151 Kg = 8,0 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
   Metacentric height 2,7 ft / 0,8 m
   Roll period: 15,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,568
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18,82 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11,48 ft / 3,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
      - Stern:      11,48 ft / 3,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   11,61 ft / 3,54 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 85,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 14.852 Square feet or 1.380 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 586 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 1,99
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped