NUS planned light forces for 1914

[RAM]

Gotta do something to explain why some things which will be happening within the NUS Navy design bureau will happen...that will be some material for the news reports.

Basically, I'm looking at the navy and lacks some important stuff while what's there it's barely adequate. I am also concerned looking at the stats of the BB just laid down (which is nice for the displacement, but veeerrrryyy slow)...so let's say the chief of the design bureau is found guilty of corruption or something like that (will have to work on the story) and that he's changed by someone else who doesn't like what's being built at all, brings a whole new design team online and fires most of the guys working there.

Part of this explains why there's a 1912 destroyer, two units of which already have been built (I think there are just two), and a new, improved version, is introduced. Standarization would call for such a thing not to happen ,but you know what happens when a design bureau is changed upside down. Add to that, I plan to make the chief of the bureau to be quite a character.

Anyway, starting 1914 the NUS will build a number (how many is still undecided) of the following destroyer. As part of the changes, all ships smaller than cruisers will be classified along letters (similar to british practice with destroyers and submarines during WWII).

Oh, BTW, the drawings I did. As I am a drawing disgrace...they were done taking Sachle's pictures as a base and adding some stuff here and there, some of it of my own creation but most of it coming from others'.
So credit due for the drawings to Sachle (which means thesmilingassasine and brockpaine, too), and to Hooman (taken several details from some of his ships).

So, here we go:



A class, NUS Destroyer type laid down 1914 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   999 t light; 1.033 t standard; 1.200 t normal; 1.333 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   309,91 ft / 306,76 ft x 29,53 ft x 11,15 ft (normal load)
   94,46 m / 93,50 m x 9,00 m  x 3,40 m

Armament:
      3 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft
      1 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm guns in single mounts, 3,17lbs / 1,44kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline, 1 raised gun
      4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 100 lbs / 45 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 170
   8 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,18" / 30 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25.689 shp / 19.164 Kw = 31,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 300 tons

Complement:
   101 - 132

Cost:
   £0,171 million / $0,682 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 13 tons, 1,0 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 0,6 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0,6 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
   Machinery: 632 tons, 52,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 297 tons, 24,8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 201 tons, 16,7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 4,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     272 lbs / 123 Kg = 8,5 x 4,0 " / 102 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,26
   Metacentric height 1,2 ft / 0,4 m
   Roll period: 11,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,12
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,416
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,39 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17,51 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17,88 ft / 5,45 m
      - Forecastle (30 %):   17,88 ft / 5,45 m (10,33 ft / 3,15 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      10,33 ft / 3,15 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10,33 ft / 3,15 m
      - Stern:      10,33 ft / 3,15 m
      - Average freeboard:   12,60 ft / 3,84 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 182,6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 60,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 5.630 Square feet or 523 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 58 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 130 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,66
      - Overall: 0,56
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


Trial speed: 33.5 knots
Misc weight:
25 tons for destroyer FC
10 tons short range wireless
15 tons for 45 depth charges and rail on the quarterdeck
             total misc weight: 50 tons

History behind the class:
Upon review of the existing ships and planned builds, it was noticed that the light forces, notably the destroyers which were planned for a top speed of 29 knots, were too slow. It was also of concern the lack of a proper anti submarine fit (OOC, I see none in the drawings...), and the usefulness of the D-200 class side guns was seriously questioned.

As a result, design teams worked overnight to design a new destroyer class which, based on the D-200, would be a vast improvement over it.

Target speed was set to 31 knots. In trials the ship would deliver up to 33.5 knots, both figures were huge improvements from the previous D-200 class. Instead of four 4-in guns, two of them in side mounts, only three mounts were built in, but all in the centerline so all three could fire simultaneously, a similar performance to that offered with the D-200 two side mounts which couldn't bear on the same target.

In addition to the standard two triple 18'' torpedo mounts, two single torpedo mounts were mounted on the bows, just behind the forecastle, to allow for a better torpedo firing arcs allowing for head-on torpedo attacks.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------






Altair, NUS Light Cruiser laid down 1914 (engine 1916).

I don't have the stats here, as I'm at work and they're home but will post them as soon as I can.

Main reason for this class to be built is that the NUS is already well behind in most naval departments, the last protected cruisers entering service being hopelessy obsolete by 1914 standards.
Again top speed was a concern, the Nueva class protected cruisers being good for 27 knots only. The new class had a target speed of 29 knots and achieved it.
Also, the main weaponry was subjected to a thorough revision. Instead of the usual 6-inch and 4-inch mixture of the previous argentinian protected cruisers, the main battery for the new ships would be eight 6 inch guns in single mounts giving the class a credible threat level against other cruisers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

And now something that will make you cry, laugh, cringe, or all together:



Independencia, NUS Battleship laid down 1914 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   40.380 t light; 43.343 t standard; 46.455 t normal; 48.944 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   726,40 ft / 721,78 ft x 101,71 ft (Bulges 118,11 ft) x 31,17 ft (normal load)
   221,41 m / 220,00 m x 31,00 m (Bulges 36,00 m)  x 9,50 m

Armament:
      12 - 13,78" / 350 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1.308,20lbs / 593,39kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 13,78" / 350 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1.308,20lbs / 593,39kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all amidships
      16 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 10 raised mounts
      4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm guns in single mounts, 3,17lbs / 1,44kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 25.288 lbs / 11.471 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 140

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   426,51 ft / 130,00 m   12,14 ft / 3,70 m
   Ends:   5,12" / 130 mm   295,28 ft / 90,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   5,12" / 130 mm   426,51 ft / 130,00 m   7,87 ft / 2,40 m
     Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      4,33" / 110 mm   426,51 ft / 130,00 m   27,07 ft / 8,25 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,6" / 370 mm   10,0" / 255 mm      11,0" / 280 mm
   2nd:   14,6" / 370 mm   10,0" / 255 mm      11,0" / 280 mm
   3rd:   6,10" / 155 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 6,10" / 155 mm, Conning tower: 6,10" / 155 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 62.036 shp / 46.279 Kw = 23,00 kts
   Range 12.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.601 tons

Complement:
   1.581 - 2.056

Cost:
   £5,590 million / $22,360 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3.161 tons, 6,8 %
   Armour: 17.223 tons, 37,1 %
      - Belts: 4.462 tons, 9,6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.850 tons, 4,0 %
      - Armament: 4.613 tons, 9,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 6.129 tons, 13,2 %
      - Conning Tower: 170 tons, 0,4 %
   Machinery: 2.311 tons, 5,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 17.185 tons, 37,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.075 tons, 13,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1,1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     53.625 lbs / 24.324 Kg = 41,0 x 13,8 " / 350 mm shells or 10,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06
   Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 20,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,612
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17,22 ft / 5,25 m
      - Forecastle (21 %):   17,22 ft / 5,25 m
      - Mid (67 %):      17,22 ft / 5,25 m
      - Quarterdeck (14 %):   17,22 ft / 5,25 m
      - Stern:      17,22 ft / 5,25 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,22 ft / 5,25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 54.291 Square feet or 5.044 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 227 lbs/sq ft or 1.108 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,03
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform.


40300 tons light displacement, 18x350mm guns in six triple mounts firing with steadiness bonus. 350mm belt and 370mm turret armor. 6.10'' deck. 23 knots top speed. You know historically argentinians liked turret farms, isnt it? :)

Now before you think I'm totally out of my mind, this is not a ship I'm gonna build. For starters, I can't (my minister of industry would laugh his arse off if he was proposed to build a 40k ton class of battleships with all the other projects I have on my mind). To go on, I also can't (I don't have triple 350mms, Colombia does but they're licenced dutch mounts, so they can't be shared for free). Add to those two reasons, that I can't (for I don't have the slips to build them, nor docks to put her in for refit/repairs)...

And finally, I'm crazy. Just not THAT crazy ;).

Just wanted to send some shakes down your spines. And this design could have a place here anyway. Lets say the new chief of naval design wants it to be built, pushes a lot for it, and that his tries cause some interesting shockwaves within the NUS naval and industrial establishment...sounds fun, huh? :)


any comments welcome.

[Korpen]

Two things of rule-technical nature:

A class, NUS Destroyer type laid down 1914 (Engine 1916)

NUS does not have the 1913 engine tech needed for 1916 engine year (nor have it under research as of 2/1914), so it is 1912 engines still.

15 tons for 45 depth charges and rail on the quarterdeck
             total misc weight: 50 tons
It was also of concern the lack of a proper anti submarine fit (OOC, I see none in the drawings...)

Easy explanation, the NUS do not have the ASW tech needed to mount depth charges.

(which is nice for the displacement, but veeerrrryyy slow)

Would not call 21kts slow. It is after all pretty much the "standard" speed of a Navalism BB (most are in the 21-22kts range).
Given the NUS economy I think that going much larger would be cost-prohibitive.   

[RAM]

Two things of rule-technical nature:

A class, NUS Destroyer type laid down 1914 (Engine 1916)

NUS does not have the 1913 engine tech needed for 1916 engine year (nor have it under research as of 2/1914), so it is 1912 engines still.

The Colombians have it. Under the Cruz del Sur alliance terms, all technology is shared between the signatory members. So, the NUS also has said technology. I know it takes 2 HY to develop it, but  I assumed the technology had been transferred and "digested" by H2 1914. I have done provisions for its funding in the quarterly reports....under those conditions the 1916 plant would be ready for use for H2/1914. If there are problems with it, I don't have any kind of trouble delaying construction start until H1/1915.

Easy explanation, the NUS do not have the ASW tech needed to mount depth charges.

see avobe. Truth be told, it's my fault as I should update the tech section of the encyclopaedia. but right now I have my hands full...I'll do it sooner or later. For now it can be assumed that what any member of the Cruz del Sur alliance has, the NUS also has it, but as I said, I will update the tech section accordingly very soon

Would not call 21kts slow. It is after all pretty much the "standard" speed of a Navalism BB (most are in the 21-22kts range).
Given the NUS economy I think that going much larger would be cost-prohibitive.   

According to the SS files Sachle sent me ,the 1914 "final" design for the NUS BB was to make 20 knots at max power. That's hardly acceptable...not to say that's simply not good enough.

Reaching 23knots might mean a couple thousand extra tons per ship. It's affordable and within reach of the current economy the NUS has.

[Korpen]

The Colombians have it. Under the Cruz del Sur alliance terms, all technology is shared between the signatory members. So, the NUS also has said technology. I know it takes a HY to develop it, but last HY report for the NUS was of H1/1914. I assumed the technology had been transferred then, and would be ready for use for H2/1914. If there are problems with it, I don't have any kind of trouble delaying construction start until H1/1915.

Will be a bit longer then that, as GC (Gran Colombia) only finished the tech in 1/1915, you can share it from the second half of 1915 (2/1915). Integrating takes two half years, not one, so the earliest you use the tech is in 2/1916.

According to the SS files Sachle sent me ,the 1914 "final" design for the NUS BB was to make 20 knots at max power. That's hardly acceptable...not to say that's simply not good enough.

Reaching 23knots might mean a couple thousand extra tons per ship. It's affordable and within reach of the current economy the NUS has.

Ok, but looking at the BBs of your allies 22 should be enogh to operate with them. Why do you feel the need for the extra speed?

[RAM]

Will be a bit longer then that, as GC (Gran Colombia) only finished the tech in 1/1915, you can share it from the second half of 1915 (2/1915). Integrating takes two half years, not one, so the earliest you use the tech is in 2/1916.

Eough. didn't know GC had developed it just for 1915. Assumed it was much earlier, circa 1913 or so.

Back to the drawing board I guess...will have to make do with 1912 plants until I got the tech. Thanks for warning me about it. At least the ASW fit, I can make use of it (was already there by 1912, just checked it)

Ok, but looking at the BBs of your allies 22 should be enogh to operate with them. Why do you feel the need for the extra speed?

For big ships I target a slightly better speed than the one I expect the ship to normally operate at. This comes from an old practice I had in WW, where I played a nation with a very conservative approach to damage. Plainly said, that extra knot is there to take care of some battle damage-related speed loss.


[edit] one has to work with what he has got... reduced top speed to 30 knots, 32.5 in trials. Freeboard is a tad lower, but not enough to make a difference in the drawing. rest of the ship is identical to the posted avobe. I'll have to do something similar to the CL design, I guess, but that will have to wait until I'm home.



A Class, NUS Destroyer laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   970 t light; 1.004 t standard; 1.200 t normal; 1.357 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   309,88 ft / 306,76 ft x 29,53 ft x 11,15 ft (normal load)
   94,45 m / 93,50 m x 9,00 m  x 3,40 m

Armament:
      3 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32,00lbs / 14,51kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft
      1 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm guns in single mounts, 3,17lbs / 1,44kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline, 1 raised gun
      4 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 100 lbs / 45 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 170
   8 - 18,0" / 457,2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,18" / 30 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 22.346 shp / 16.670 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 353 tons

Complement:
   101 - 132

Cost:
   £0,167 million / $0,667 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 13 tons, 1,0 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 0,6 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0,6 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0 %
   Machinery: 619 tons, 51,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 282 tons, 23,5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 230 tons, 19,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 4,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     280 lbs / 127 Kg = 8,7 x 4,0 " / 102 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,33
   Metacentric height 1,3 ft / 0,4 m
   Roll period: 10,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,11
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,416
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,39 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17,51 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17,72 ft / 5,40 m
      - Forecastle (30 %):   17,72 ft / 5,40 m (10,01 ft / 3,05 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      10,01 ft / 3,05 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10,01 ft / 3,05 m
      - Stern:      10,01 ft / 3,05 m
      - Average freeboard:   12,32 ft / 3,76 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 179,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 58,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 5.630 Square feet or 523 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 62 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 26 lbs/sq ft or 125 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 1,49
      - Overall: 0,55
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Trial speed: 32.5 knots
Misc weight:
25 tons for destroyer FC
8 tons for 8 torpedoes.
17 tons for 51 depth charges and rail on the quarterdeck
             total misc weight: 50 tons

[Korpen]

Eough. didn't know GC had developed it just for 1915. Assumed it was much earlier, circa 1913 or so.

If research from scratch the indicated year is the year one can start the research, and then it is 20% probability for success after 4 halfs of research. So it will always take at minimum two years from the date of the tech until anyone have it ready for use. GC in this case got the tech after five half-years (60%) which can be seen as avarage and what one should expect.

[RAM]

If research from scratch the indicated year is the year one can start the research

well, this is something I must've missed back when I read the rules...thought I had understood them all, and then I go and find I've missed bits like that one.

On my way back to re-read them again. Just in case I missed something else.

Thanks for pointing that up, Korpen :).

[RAM]

The light cruiser stats. Modified the design to take a 1912 machinery set.




Altair, NUS Light Cruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   5.293 t light; 5.503 t standard; 6.388 t normal; 7.096 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   459,32 ft / 459,32 ft x 49,21 ft x 19,36 ft (normal load)
   140,00 m / 140,00 m x 15,00 m  x 5,90 m

Armament:
      2 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm guns in single mounts, 3,17lbs / 1,44kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 877 lbs / 398 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,15" / 80 mm   393,70 ft / 120,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   2,36" / 60 mm     65,29 ft / 19,90 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Upper:   1,18" / 30 mm   393,70 ft / 120,00 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
     Main Belt covers 132 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3,35" / 85 mm   0,98" / 25 mm            -
   2nd:   3,35" / 85 mm   0,98" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 2,76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 48.490 shp / 36.174 Kw = 29,00 kts
   Range 10.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.593 tons

Complement:
   356 - 464

Cost:
   £0,797 million / $3,188 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 110 tons, 1,7 %
   Armour: 1.073 tons, 16,8 %
      - Belts: 649 tons, 10,2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 71 tons, 1,1 %
      - Armour Deck: 332 tons, 5,2 %
      - Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0,3 %
   Machinery: 1.933 tons, 30,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.027 tons, 31,7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.095 tons, 17,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2,3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5.037 lbs / 2.285 Kg = 46,6 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
   Metacentric height 2,1 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 14,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,511
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25,92 ft / 7,90 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25,59 ft / 7,80 m (14,11 ft / 4,30 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      14,11 ft / 4,30 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14,11 ft / 4,30 m
      - Stern:      14,11 ft / 4,30 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,43 ft / 5,01 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 15.213 Square feet or 1.413 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 80 lbs/sq ft or 389 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,95
      - Longitudinal: 1,52
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc weight:
100 tons FC
12 tons torpedoes (loaded sets+2 reloads)
25 tons long range Marconi set
13 tons for 13 mines.

[Guinness]

well, this is something I must've missed back when I read the rules...thought I had understood them all, and then I go and find I've missed bits like that one.

On my way back to re-read them again. Just in case I missed something else.

Thanks for pointing that up, Korpen :).

Don't sweat not being up to speed on the rules yet too much. Even the old-timers around here sometimes get rules items crossed up. That's what the rest of us are here for: to remind you!  ;)

As far as the ships:  I like your DD a lot. 8 tubes is a very heavy battery in the Nverse right now, but certainly not against any rules or anything. There is also a continuing debate about minimal seakeeping in DDs, made all the more lively by recent research by myself into the freeboard of historical DDs that is quite a bit lower than what you see in the average Nverse design.

All that is a long-winded way of saying: I think the DD could have a little less freeboard, but that's completely up to the NUS's designers.

The cruiser strikes me overall as an excellent ship, but maybe with the opposite problem. If it were me I want my cruisers to have more freeboard, mostly so that room for accommodation and workspaces is better. Also, there is a per-shaft limitation under the 1912 engine tech of 20,000 SHP, but that's easily solvable with a 3rd shaft in this design.

On the whole though, very good interesting designs.

[Sachmle]

Excellente! Muy bueno! I like them.

[RAM]

Thanks Sachmle :)


Guinness, yeah, I know from seeing other DD models around navalims that seaworthiness under 1.00 is acceptable for light fast combatants. I figured by having it, those DDs will have better performance in uncalm seas than the average destroyer out there. I don't really plan to cram much more into the DD, other than speed.

I did some tries to increase speed by lowering freeboard, but don't seem to be able to extract more than half a knot over the 30 knot limit. Not worth the sacrifice in seaworthiness, I think.

About the CL, damn, you're right. Forgot about the 20000hp limit per shaft when changing powerplants. Redesigned it as a three shaft ship. Will change the drawing soom, aswell. While doing so, I added a bit of freeboard and now has a much better seaworthiness.

Altair, NUS Light Cruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   5.473 t light; 5.687 t standard; 6.588 t normal; 7.309 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   469,35 ft / 459,32 ft x 49,21 ft x 19,36 ft (normal load)
   143,06 m / 140,00 m x 15,00 m  x 5,90 m

Armament:
      2 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1,85" / 47,0 mm guns in single mounts, 3,17lbs / 1,44kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 877 lbs / 398 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,15" / 80 mm   360,89 ft / 110,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   2,36" / 60 mm     98,10 ft / 29,90 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Upper:   1,18" / 30 mm   360,89 ft / 110,00 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
     Main Belt covers 121 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3,35" / 85 mm   0,98" / 25 mm            -
   2nd:   3,35" / 85 mm   0,98" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 2,76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 49.807 shp / 37.156 Kw = 29,00 kts
   Range 10.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.622 tons

Complement:
   365 - 475

Cost:
   £0,817 million / $3,268 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 110 tons, 1,7 %
   Armour: 1.055 tons, 16,0 %
      - Belts: 625 tons, 9,5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 71 tons, 1,1 %
      - Armour Deck: 337 tons, 5,1 %
      - Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0,3 %
   Machinery: 1.986 tons, 30,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.173 tons, 33,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.115 tons, 16,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2,3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5.723 lbs / 2.596 Kg = 53,0 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
   Metacentric height 2,3 ft / 0,7 m
   Roll period: 13,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,39
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,527
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27,56 ft / 8,40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   27,56 ft / 8,40 m (16,08 ft / 4,90 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      16,08 ft / 4,90 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,08 ft / 4,90 m
      - Stern:      16,08 ft / 4,90 m
      - Average freeboard:   18,37 ft / 5,60 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 113,4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 15.440 Square feet or 1.434 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 79 lbs/sq ft or 387 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,92
      - Longitudinal: 1,95
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


Misc weight:
100 tons FC
12 tons torpedoes (loaded sets+2 reloads)
25 tons long range Marconi set
13 tons for 13 mines.

[Sachmle]

BTW, if you check the OOB there is a relatively up to date list of each ship class and quantity. You'll notice that there are 4 D-200s already finished as of 1914. There was also a follow on to the Nueva's called the Toreadors, but I can't remember how many, if any, got laid down. As for the BBs, La Marina (under me) believed in a OTL US style philosophy of why be fast, they have to go through/stop us.

[RAM]

thanks for the info, sachmle :).

As for the speed...well, the US could follow that doctrine, they were a major naval power and their battleships some serious stuff...

The NUS, on the other hand is a medium sized naval power at best. If a bigger enemies comes our way...well, we won't have to force them to come our way...they will do so on their own, lol.

The BB design was pretty good for the displacement, but the speed is a big concern for me. As it's been said, most of the Alianza de la Cruz del Sur members' BBs are good for 22 knots. A 20 knot dreadnought will mean a tactical disadvantage for any battleline with them formed up.

Check soon for another thread I'll open about the BB I plan to build starting in H2 1915...need the time to develop slips and docks to build/accept the class, and to develop a triple 13.5'' mount.

[Sachmle]

FYI: A 10cm deck will stop anything here at max range. Anything over that is overkill and wasted weight.

[RAM]

Upon realizing the NUS already has twin mount technology for CL, I did a complete redesign of the CL. I used quite a bit of Toreador's art in this ship (as a logical progression in the CL class), so credit to Sachmle for it.

The ship is slightly slower than the previous sketch, but has a broadside of ten 6'' guns. The upper belt armor is gone, but in exchange the main belt armor is increased, as is deck armor. Gone is the ability to lay mines, as this ships will be mostly in fleet service and so there's no plans to use this ships in minelaying roles.




Altair Class, NUS Light Cruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   5.483 t light; 5.710 t standard; 6.521 t normal; 7.169 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   465,82 ft / 459,32 ft x 46,92 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
   141,98 m / 140,00 m x 14,30 m  x 6,00 m

Armament:
      8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (1x2 guns), 108,00lbs / 48,99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline amidships
      6 - 2,00" / 50,8 mm guns in single mounts, 4,00lbs / 1,81kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1,00" / 25,4 mm guns in single mounts, 0,50lbs / 0,23kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1.106 lbs / 502 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,54" / 90 mm   360,89 ft / 110,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm     98,10 ft / 29,90 m   7,71 ft / 2,35 m
     Main Belt covers 121 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3,15" / 80 mm   0,98" / 25 mm            -
   2nd:   3,15" / 80 mm   0,98" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1,57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 2,76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 46.654 shp / 34.804 Kw = 28,60 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1.459 tons

Complement:
   362 - 471

Cost:
   £0,827 million / $3,307 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 138 tons, 2,1 %
   Armour: 1.096 tons, 16,8 %
      - Belts: 566 tons, 8,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 76 tons, 1,2 %
      - Armour Deck: 433 tons, 6,6 %
      - Conning Tower: 21 tons, 0,3 %
   Machinery: 1.860 tons, 28,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2.251 tons, 34,5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.037 tons, 15,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 138 tons, 2,1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5.656 lbs / 2.566 Kg = 52,4 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
   Metacentric height 2,0 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 14,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,67
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,538
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,79 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21,43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,28 ft / 7,40 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   24,28 ft / 7,40 m (16,08 ft / 4,90 m aft of break)
      - Mid (67 %):      16,08 ft / 4,90 m
      - Quarterdeck (14 %):   16,08 ft / 4,90 m
      - Stern:      16,08 ft / 4,90 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,88 ft / 5,45 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111,4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 14.871 Square feet or 1.382 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 406 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 2,01
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



Misc weight:
100 tons FC
12 tons 6 torps+1 reload
25 tons LR Marconi
1 tons extra accomodation for the captain.