Glorious French battlecruiser

[TexanCowboy]

Now all France needs is a low-rider battlecruiser.  8). Hehehe

[Kaiser Kirk]

Not a fan of the design. TDS is fine, should stop all hull and frame fragments, while being thin enough to still be somewhat elastic.  Compromises everywhere and the result isn't great in my opinon. 

[TexanCowboy]

So like the Nuevo Leon class, then?

[Jefgte]

IMO, 27kts BCs is enough to be the fast wing of a 22kts BBs squadron.

Jef  ;)

[Tanthalas]

So like the Nuevo Leon class, then?

the NLs were decent enough BBs in their day... Everyone was making comprimises, some just happend to make diferent ones than others.

IMO, 27kts BCs is enough to be the fast wing of a 22kts BBs squadron.

Jef  ;)

25 is fast enough for that Jef or atleast thats my opinion on it

[TexanCowboy]

For you.

[ledeper]

As usual ;D an Esc reply ; :D ; 8)

Esc Bc laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   27.811 t light; 29.071 t standard; 31.621 t normal; 33.661 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   720,99 ft / 717,52 ft x 104,99 ft x 29,04 ft (normal load)
   219,76 m / 218,70 m x 32,00 m  x 8,85 m

Armament:
      6 - 13,78" / 350 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1.308,20lbs / 593,39kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      20 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (10x2 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 9.921 lbs / 4.500 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   419,95 ft / 128,00 m   15,58 ft / 4,75 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5,91" / 150 mm   419,95 ft / 128,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,97" / 50 mm   419,95 ft / 128,00 m   26,05 ft / 7,94 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      13,8" / 350 mm
   3rd:   0,98" / 25 mm   0,98" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3,94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 11,81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 98.949 shp / 73.816 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4.590 tons

Complement:
   1.185 - 1.541

Cost:
   £5,062 million / $20,249 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.240 tons, 3,9 %
   Armour: 11.133 tons, 35,2 %
      - Belts: 4.859 tons, 15,4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 797 tons, 2,5 %
      - Armament: 1.547 tons, 4,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 3.676 tons, 11,6 %
      - Conning Tower: 254 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 3.687 tons, 11,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11.251 tons, 35,6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.811 tons, 12,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     45.427 lbs / 20.605 Kg = 34,7 x 13,8 " / 350 mm shells or 7,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,32
   Metacentric height 8,8 ft / 2,7 m
   Roll period: 14,9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,21
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,506
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,83 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,79 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19,69 ft / 6,00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,54 ft / 5,04 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 50.466 Square feet or 4.688 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 171 lbs/sq ft or 833 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,00
      - Longitudinal: 1,06
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

10 dg outward slope

[TexanCowboy]

Just post the ship you built in 1914. That's a better ship.

[Tanthalas]

not even shields on the secondary guns ouch... crew is going to love that

[mentat]

Gannaf does seem more logical in the Fleet Heavy Scout role than Montmedy (overkill for that)

But if you have 2 new Super Duper Fast BBs at 28 knots - a 27 knot BC does seem a bit odd - to give it longer useful life + stir things up a bit - why not a 30 or 31 knot version - say using Montmedy engines  ;D

  - then they could chase down most ACs - now that would be interesting  :D

[maddox]

Montmedy is seen as a counter to the Dutch Armored Frigates. But strong enough to stand in the line with the slower BB's if that is called for.

This vessel is just an excersize from a "Nverse French naval engineer". The Nverse French fleet has other vessels in the heavy scout role. But I'm reading the reactions, and up to now, it seems it will stay a paper project.

But, with another project in mind.... I could do an enlarged Gloire II

Gloire III, French Battlecruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   29.900 t light; 31.429 t standard; 34.424 t normal; 36.820 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   708,66 ft / 705,38 ft x 114,83 ft x 31,00 ft (normal load)
   216,00 m / 215,00 m x 35,00 m  x 9,45 m

Armament:
      6 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1.807,79lbs / 820,00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (2x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      12 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (6x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 12.334 lbs / 5.595 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10,0" / 254 mm   458,50 ft / 139,75 m   14,00 ft / 4,27 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   458,50 ft / 139,75 m   26,78 ft / 8,16 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   9,00" / 229 mm      12,0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   4th:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,75" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 10,00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 137.989 shp / 102.940 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 7.500nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.392 tons

Complement:
   1.263 - 1.642

Cost:
   £5,925 million / $23,699 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.424 tons, 4,1%
   Armour: 8.542 tons, 24,8%
      - Belts: 2.792 tons, 8,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 909 tons, 2,6%
      - Armament: 1.917 tons, 5,6%
      - Armour Deck: 2.696 tons, 7,8%
      - Conning Tower: 228 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 5.141 tons, 14,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14.393 tons, 41,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.524 tons, 13,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     48.101 lbs / 21.818 Kg = 28,7 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 7,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,21
   Metacentric height 8,8 ft / 2,7 m
   Roll period: 16,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,480
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,14 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (23%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Mid (60%):      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (12%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Stern:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   25,06 ft / 7,64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 196,7%
   Waterplane Area: 52.996 Square feet or 4.924 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 196 lbs/sq ft or 958 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,88
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 ton FC
25 Ton long range marconi
25 ton ERADe
50 ton crew comfort
50 ton not assigned.

[maddox]

Another approach. Thanks to Hooper82

Gloire III, French Battlecruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   28.942 t light; 30.230 t standard; 33.165 t normal; 35.512 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   708,66 ft / 705,38 ft x 114,83 ft x 29,86 ft (normal load)
   216,00 m / 215,00 m x 35,00 m  x 9,10 m

Armament:
      12 - 10,83" / 275 mm guns (4x3 guns), 634,55lbs / 287,83kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 9.102 lbs / 4.129 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10,0" / 254 mm   426,76 ft / 130,08 m   14,50 ft / 4,42 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 93% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   426,76 ft / 130,08 m   25,79 ft / 7,86 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,0" / 254 mm   8,00" / 203 mm      10,0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   0,50" / 13 mm   0,50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2,75" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 10,00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 135.037 shp / 100.738 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 7.500nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.282 tons

Complement:
   1.228 - 1.597

Cost:
   £5,316 million / $21,265 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.120 tons, 3,4%
   Armour: 8.912 tons, 26,9%
      - Belts: 2.739 tons, 8,3%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 814 tons, 2,5%
      - Armament: 2.439 tons, 7,4%
      - Armour Deck: 2.697 tons, 8,1%
      - Conning Tower: 222 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 5.031 tons, 15,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 13.479 tons, 40,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.223 tons, 12,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     49.726 lbs / 22.555 Kg = 78,4 x 10,8 " / 275 mm shells or 7,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
   Metacentric height 7,9 ft / 2,4 m
   Roll period: 17,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,480
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,14 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,56 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (26%):   25,43 ft / 7,75 m
      - Mid (60%):      25,43 ft / 7,75 m
      - Quarterdeck (14%):   25,43 ft / 7,75 m
      - Stern:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Average freeboard:   25,80 ft / 7,86 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93,0%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 209,1%
   Waterplane Area: 53.007 Square feet or 4.924 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 184 lbs/sq ft or 898 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,94
      - Longitudinal: 1,71
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 ton FC
25 Ton long range marconi
25 ton ERADe
50 ton crew comfort
50 ton not assigned.

[hooper82]

Makes a vicious raider/cruiser killer, (for now) can outrun anything it can't outgun.

[Guinness]

Yikes. I don't think 12x275mm on almost 29,000 tons is a respectable armament.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
The eleven inchers keep the captains (and admirals) from using those ships for what they should NOT be used - i.e. fighting battleships. They are cruiser killers supreme.

I do not expect a better armed ship of comparable size to be protected against 11" shells. So ROF should should carry the day.

Of course, when encountering the 40K monsters from the Duch or ESC fleets, the 12x11" ship should run for it. That's the cost of the ten thousand tonnes difference in displacement ...

Borys