Glorious French battlecruiser

[P3D]

 ;D ;D ;D

[mentat]

I like the Montmedy - but suggest to slope the main belt and thicken deck to 3" over the magazines - then she seems a true Fast BB, and still a bit cheaper than the most expensive one?

[maddox]

Like this?

Montmedy, French Fast battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   33.027 t light; 35.033 t standard; 38.909 t normal; 42.009 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   793,96 ft / 787,40 ft x 104,99 ft x 30,51 ft (normal load)
   242,00 m / 240,00 m x 32,00 m  x 9,30 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.807,79lbs / 820,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      4 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (2x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (4x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 15.583 lbs / 7.068 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 140

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,5" / 318 mm   482,28 ft / 147,00 m   20,00 ft / 6,10 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 94% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,75" / 44 mm   482,28 ft / 147,00 m   26,85 ft / 8,18 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      14,0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 3,00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 109.382 shp / 81.599 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6.976 tons

Complement:
   1.384 - 1.800

Cost:
   £5,301 million / $21,203 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.801 tons, 4,6%
   Armour: 12.395 tons, 31,9%
      - Belts: 5.230 tons, 13,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 838 tons, 2,2%
      - Armament: 2.858 tons, 7,3%
      - Armour Deck: 3.172 tons, 8,2%
      - Conning Tower: 297 tons, 0,8%
   Machinery: 4.075 tons, 10,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14.306 tons, 36,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.882 tons, 15,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1,2%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     51.293 lbs / 23.266 Kg = 30,6 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 7,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 7,1 ft / 2,2 m
   Roll period: 16,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28,06 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32,81 ft / 10,00 m
      - Forecastle (24%):   18,21 ft / 5,55 m
      - Mid (50%):      18,21 ft / 5,55 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   18,21 ft / 5,55 m
      - Stern:      18,21 ft / 5,55 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,60 ft / 5,97 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,5%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 143,2%
   Waterplane Area: 57.149 Square feet or 5.309 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 185 lbs/sq ft or 902 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,04
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 tons FC
25 tons  Enhanced Radio Aural Detection equipment
25 tons long range marconi
100 tons crew comfort
50 tons Flag facilities

Armor belt sloped 12°

[mentat]

Yess - how many of these brutes can you afford? ;D

[maddox]

Probably a group of 4, starting HY02 1916.

[Carthaginian]

Yess - how many of these brutes can you afford? ;D

That is not the proper question to be asking Glorious France.
They are not worried about a ship that will only cost 33 million Franks... such is pocket change to the mighty French economy! The true worry is how much it will cost the MN to stock the Admiral's wine cellar. This will likely exceed the cost of the vessel itself by a tidy sum!

[mentat]

In that case I can only advocate a review re: further future-proofing - maybe 1" more armour and another 2x2 5.5" (adds 1000 tons?) - and make the batch of 4 the first of 2  or 3 even

I always thought the Italians (with the benefit of hindsight!!) got the Francesco Caracciolo right: 8 x 15" and 28 knots - it hits the spot just right - midway between the QEs and Hood

It sets a new benchmark - previous BBs look ponderous and can be effectively outmanouevered - most BCs are heavily outclassed .....

[maddox]

Man, it's getting expensive.
But she'll be hated all over the 7 seas. As beautifull Occitanie is, the ugle Montmendy will be.

Montmedy, French Fast battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   35.003 t light; 37.070 t standard; 41.092 t normal; 44.310 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   793,96 ft / 787,40 ft x 104,99 ft x 30,51 ft (normal load)
   242,00 m / 240,00 m x 32,00 m  x 9,30 m

Armament:
      8 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.807,79lbs / 820,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      6 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (3x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5,51" / 140 mm guns (4x2 guns), 92,59lbs / 42,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 15.768 lbs / 7.152 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 140

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   448,82 ft / 136,80 m   20,50 ft / 6,25 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 88% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   448,82 ft / 136,80 m   28,35 ft / 8,64 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,0" / 356 mm   10,0" / 254 mm      14,0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   3rd:   2,00" / 51 mm   1,00" / 25 mm      3,00" / 76 mm

   - Armour deck: 3,50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 12,00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 114.468 shp / 85.393 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 9.000nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7.240 tons

Complement:
   1.442 - 1.875

Cost:
   £5,486 million / $21,944 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.822 tons, 4,4%
   Armour: 13.667 tons, 33,3%
      - Belts: 5.681 tons, 13,8%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 942 tons, 2,3%
      - Armament: 2.929 tons, 7,1%
      - Armour Deck: 3.807 tons, 9,3%
      - Conning Tower: 308 tons, 0,7%
   Machinery: 4.265 tons, 10,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14.699 tons, 35,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.090 tons, 14,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 550 tons, 1,3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     55.793 lbs / 25.307 Kg = 33,3 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 8,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,15
   Metacentric height 7,0 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 16,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,48
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,570
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28,06 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32,81 ft / 10,00 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   18,86 ft / 5,75 m
      - Mid (50%):      18,86 ft / 5,75 m
      - Quarterdeck (18%):   18,86 ft / 5,75 m
      - Stern:      18,86 ft / 5,75 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,26 ft / 6,18 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146,5%
   Waterplane Area: 58.796 Square feet or 5.462 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 184 lbs/sq ft or 900 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,00
      - Longitudinal: 1,05
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 tons FC
2 * 25 tons  Enhanced Radio Aural Detection equipment
2 * 25 tons long range marconi
100 tons crew comfort
100 tons Flag facilities
50 tons undefined


Armor belt sloped 12°

[mentat]

To be feared certainly - esp whole squadrons of them!!

2 minor queries:

Layout of centreline 5.5"s majority forward - how to fit in 2 forward?

High stem 33' vs focsle 19'

Could we humbly submit for pictures of the beasts?

[Guinness]

The CSA's excellent draftsmen are considering illustrating this ship for our French friends, if we get our 1916/1 report and a few other to-do items done soon.

She's likely to have a pretty steep walk up to the stem though, especially with the ram bow. It might be time for the French to experiment with a clipper form.

[Korpen]

Could we humbly submit for pictures of the beasts?

Second that, considering all the guns are at deck level and spread out, it might be tricky to find space for the secondaries in areas were they do not interfere with the main battery.
This apart from the rather silly stem. :)

[mentat]

Well CSA drawings are indeed the best - she is bigger and badder than Enterprise - ?? will she be prettier??

I'm sure the high stem is easily sorted - or could use it to launch some early wireless controlled UAVs  ;)

[Guinness]

Well CSA drawings are indeed the best - she is bigger and badder than Enterprise - ?? will she be prettier??

No. French ships always have their own look, as we say. It's easy to build ugly ships when you are the Nverse's greatest superpower.

If you want really pretty, I'm afraid you'll have to lobby for a new CSA battlecruiser to be built. Sadly, that would probably have to wait until some docks get expanded. Otherwise it's likely the CSA will continue building workmanlike BBs.

[P3D]

Have to agree with Korpen. The secndaries will cut seriously into the firing arcs of the main guns. As all of them are deck level, it will be a problem - very limited firing arcs, forward and aft only one turret could bear. If you have to turn to unmask guns, your effective closing speed drops by several knots.

BTW I do not really understand the belt armor. Is there like 1.6m below the freeboard unarmored, i.e. the deck below partially covered? IMO SS2 assumes that the weather deck is on freeboard level for structural calculations (box girdle or whatever it is called).

[mentat]

Well most revolutions have a few problems - esp. French ones ...  ;)