Ottoman Small Cruiser Design Request

miketr · January 29, 2009, 02:29:12 PM

The Sultans Navy is looking for designs for a Mine Laying Cruiser.

Requirements

Max of 3,625 light tons (this is to allow four to be built in one year)
Armed with 150mm guns in single mounts (1900 CL tech)
Laydown date of 1914: Engine Year 1912 (100% coal fired)
Speed At least 27 Knots
Torpedoes 17.7" / 450mm weapons
Range Atleast 6,000 @ 10 knots
Seakeeping no lower than 1.0
Misc Weight 225 tons (200 tons of mines & long range radio)

And

If possible to no larger than 120 meters

Last Small Cruiser design of the Navy
http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=795.msg25012#msg25012

Guinness · January 29, 2009, 02:34:51 PM

Are they looking to buy (even in a retconned sort of way), or just looking for design services?

Desertfox · January 29, 2009, 02:48:18 PM

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=2314.0
Smaller than requested, but four of these can do the job and do it cheaper...

ledeper · January 29, 2009, 03:48:18 PM

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=1675.msg17602#msg17602

Carthaginian · January 29, 2009, 04:02:29 PM

laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   3,629 t light; 3,836 t standard; 4,225 t normal; 4,536 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   350.00 ft / 350.00 ft x 45.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
   106.68 m / 106.68 m x 13.72 m x 6.10 m

Armament:
2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.23lbs / 6.00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.23lbs / 6.00kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 952 lbs / 432 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 17.7" / 449.58 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm     -           -
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 32,042 shp / 23,903 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 700 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   261 - 340

Cost:
   £0.542 million / $2.169 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 123 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 355 tons, 8.4 %
     - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 55 tons, 1.3 %
     - Armour Deck: 283 tons, 6.7 %
     - Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1,396 tons, 33.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,504 tons, 35.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 596 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 5.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,959 lbs / 1,342 Kg = 28.7 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 12.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.63

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.469
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.78 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
     - Mid (50 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
     - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 136.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,212 Square feet or 949 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 70 lbs/sq ft or 341 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.83
      - Longitudinal: 5.37
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

P3D · January 29, 2009, 04:07:14 PM

Destroyers might have problem operating for long time far from the bases, and the Ottomans does have a bit longer seacoast than Zion with less bases available.

Shorter than the rest of the old ones, with the same beam and draught. Half the 6" armament replaced with 3" guns, but similar speed and armor so they could function with the older ships in cruiser role without much problem. Stepped hull and lowere quarterdeck should help with minelaying.

Decreasing speed to 27kts would free up weight for another ~100 mines.

Ottoman minelaying cruiser laid down 1912

Displacement:
   3,625 t light; 3,775 t standard; 4,157 t normal; 4,463 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   341.21 ft / 341.21 ft x 42.65 ft x 18.04 ft (normal load)
   104.00 m / 104.00 m x 13.00 m x 5.50 m

Armament:
4 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1912 Model
    Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
    on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1912 Model
    Breech loading guns in deck mounts
    on side, all amidships
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1912 Model
    Machine guns in deck mounts
    on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 464 lbs / 211 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   4 - 17.7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   305.12 ft / 93.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
    Main Belt covers 138 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm    -          -

- Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 35,348 shp / 26,370 Kw = 27.35 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 688 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   258 - 336

Cost:
   £0.392 million / $1.566 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 58 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 496 tons, 11.9 %
    - Belts: 296 tons, 7.1 %
    - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
    - Armament: 14 tons, 0.3 %
    - Armour Deck: 186 tons, 4.5 %
    - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,542 tons, 37.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,303 tons, 31.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 532 tons, 12.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 225 tons, 5.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
    2,671 lbs / 1,212 Kg = 25.9 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 12.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.554
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.47 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
    - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
    - Forecastle (20 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
    - Mid (65 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m (11.48 ft / 3.50 m aft of break)
    - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
    - Stern:      11.48 ft / 3.50 m
    - Average freeboard:   16.95 ft / 5.17 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 137.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,195 Square feet or 947 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 335 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.19
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Korpen · January 29, 2009, 04:11:36 PM

This ship is basically a smaller, faster version of the Dutch sloop Groningen.
The four forward guns are in a fairly tight cluster on the raised portion of the ship, giving the side guns almost 180 degrees field of fire. The two aft centreline mount are both raised to makes sure work on the mines can be conducted at the stern free from interference.

Sustained speed have been given higher priority then top speed, and her theoretical max range at top speed is 630nm.

Trebezoid, Ottoman Cruiser laid down 1912

Displacement:
   3 600 t light; 3 773 t standard; 4 314 t normal; 4 747 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393,70 ft / 393,70 ft x 39,37 ft x 18,04 ft (normal load)
   120,00 m / 120,00 m x 12,00 m x 5,50 m

Armament:
4 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1912 Model
    Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
    on centreline ends, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 1912 Model
    Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
    on side, all forward
4 - 0,31" / 8,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,02lbs / 0,01kg shells, 1912 Model
    Machine guns in deck mounts
    on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 595 lbs / 270 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   2 - 17,7" / 450 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2,76" / 70 mm   328,08 ft / 100,00 m   9,19 ft / 2,80 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
    Main Belt covers 128 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,38" / 35 mm    -         1,97" / 50 mm
   2nd:   1,38" / 35 mm    -         1,97" / 50 mm

- Armour deck: 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2,95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 30 505 shp / 22 757 Kw = 27,00 kts
   Range 5 500nm at 12,00 kts, 8200nm @ 10kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 973 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   265 - 345

Cost:
   £0,378 million / $1,513 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 77 tons, 1,8 %
   Armour: 577 tons, 13,4 %
    - Belts: 334 tons, 7,7 %
    - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
    - Armament: 31 tons, 0,7 %
    - Armour Deck: 195 tons, 4,5 %
    - Conning Tower: 17 tons, 0,4 %
   Machinery: 1 338 tons, 31,0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 347 tons, 31,2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 714 tons, 16,6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 260 tons, 6,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
    2 734 lbs / 1 240 Kg = 26,5 x 5,9 " / 150 mm shells or 0,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
   Metacentric height 1,6 ft / 0,5 m
   Roll period: 13,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19,84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
    - Stem:      21,33 ft / 6,50 m
    - Forecastle (18 %):   19,36 ft / 5,90 m
    - Mid (33 %):      19,36 ft / 5,90 m (11,48 ft / 3,50 m aft of break)
    - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
    - Stern:      11,48 ft / 3,50 m
    - Average freeboard:   14,22 ft / 4,34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 127,7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102,0 %
   Waterplane Area: 10 715 Square feet or 995 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 70 lbs/sq ft or 340 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,93
      - Longitudinal: 1,77
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Logi · January 29, 2009, 04:22:54 PM

Because I had extra time.
It appears my design is undergunned and underarmoured in comparison (probably because of the thick gun armour)

QuoteEnter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   3,625 t light; 3,784 t standard; 4,175 t normal; 4,488 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   390.00 ft / 390.00 ft x 40.00 ft x 16.00 ft (normal load)
   118.87 m / 118.87 m x 12.19 m x 4.88 m

Armament:
5 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships
6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 569 lbs / 258 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 230
   8 - 17.7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.50" / 64 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

- Armour deck: 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 30,747 shp / 22,938 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 704 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   259 - 337

Cost:
   £0.477 million / $1.910 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 71 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 711 tons, 17.0 %
     - Belts: 541 tons, 13.0 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 65 tons, 1.6 %
     - Armour Deck: 104 tons, 2.5 %
     - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,346 tons, 32.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,257 tons, 30.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 550 tons, 13.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 240 tons, 5.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,067 lbs / 1,391 Kg = 29.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 13.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.585
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
     - Mid (50 %):      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m before break)
     - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     - Average freeboard:   14.90 ft / 4.54 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 124.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,255 Square feet or 1,046 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 64 lbs/sq ft or 313 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.76
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

miketr · January 29, 2009, 05:30:23 PM

Quote from: guinness on January 29, 2009, 02:34:51 PM
Are they looking to buy (even in a retconned sort of way), or just looking for design services?

Design services; note the limits that takes into account the Ottomans Tech base.

Michael

miketr · January 29, 2009, 06:19:47 PM

Ottoman Naval Ministry reply to designs entered.

QuoteNew Zion Ship building. The Ottoman Navy has an excellent Torpedo Boat design of its own already.

QuoteBaltic Werft. The suggested design is too large, under min speed and uses non standard weapons for the Ottoman Navy.

QuoteYarrow Shipbuilders, London. Design has many interesting points in its favor. It is very well armed, good seaboat, good gunnery platform and in all other respects within design specs. The Ministry would like to request the following changes. All 150mm weapons using mount and hoist, delete the 3" weapons and if a secondary battery is desired 75's or 15mm MG's. The lack of any armor belt is negative for the design.

QuoteCape Town Shipbuilders. A very interesting design and the point on being able to operate with the Hamadiye class is well taken. Would it be possible to have six 150's and delete the 75's? The base design would it have a gun layout like this?
-------------------------75----------75
150---150 (raised)---Bridge----------150---150
-------------------------75----------75

Would it be possible to make some other change to allow for a 2nd 150 to be raised?

QuoteRotterdam Shipbuilders. A very solid design with excellent range. Only change of note required is that Ottoman Navy's MG is an 11mm weapon.

QuoteShanghai Shipbuilders. A solid design; of note is that 75's and 11mm MG would be the other weapons of choice. The armor deck is a of questionable value even as spliter protection.

QuoteAt this point in time the leading design is the Orange Offering with the Dutch design a close second. The Orange ships having the same speed and general performance of the Hamadiye class is what put it a head. The Dutch offering with its improved range is of extreme interest to the ministry.

The Rock Doctor · January 29, 2009, 06:38:10 PM

From some private yard in, oh, Khazaria. Folks there think a dedicated minelayer doesn't need armor, it needs speed to get in and out of its destination quickly (and avoid pesky Crusader cruisers while at it).

Note: the armament is two guns forward, one amidships before the hull break (between funnels), and one superfiring aft to avoid interfering with mine ops.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1912

Displacement:
   3,286 t light; 3,408 t standard; 3,776 t normal; 4,070 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.76 ft / 389.76 ft x 45.93 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
   120.02 m / 118.80 m x 14.00 m x 5.00 m

Armament:
4 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.43" / 11.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.04lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 412 lbs / 187 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 18.0" / 457 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm     -         0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 36,000 shp / 26,856 Kw = 28.79 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 663 tons)

Complement:
   240 - 313

Cost:
   £0.379 million / $1.515 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 52 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 14 tons, 0.4 %
     - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 14 tons, 0.4 %
     - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,575 tons, 41.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,411 tons, 37.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 489 tons, 13.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 235 tons, 6.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,038 lbs / 924 Kg = 19.8 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 13.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.450
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.49 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.74 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      22.64 ft / 6.90 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   22.64 ft / 6.90 m (19.69 ft / 6.00 m aft of break)
     - Mid (50 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m (11.81 ft / 3.60 m aft of break)
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Stern:      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     - Average freeboard:   16.34 ft / 4.98 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 152.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,419 Square feet or 1,061 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 72 lbs/sq ft or 351 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.24
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

miketr · January 29, 2009, 07:24:56 PM

A speed demon...

Michael

P3D · January 29, 2009, 07:49:43 PM

The deletion of the 75mms would not be sufficient for increase in the 6" armament. The second 150mm was raised after a slight freeboard adjustment. As it is, the ship is optimized to the extremes, e.g. the needed belt length is 92.96m.

Ottoman minelayer cruiser laid down 1912

Displacement:
   3,625 t light; 3,775 t standard; 4,157 t normal; 4,463 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   341.21 ft / 341.21 ft x 42.65 ft x 18.04 ft (normal load)
   104.00 m / 104.00 m x 13.00 m x 5.50 m

Armament:
4 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 464 lbs / 211 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   4 - 17.7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   305.12 ft / 93.00 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 138 % of normal length

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.39" / 10 mm      0.39" / 10 mm
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 35,351 shp / 26,372 Kw = 27.35 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 688 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   258 - 336

Cost:
   £0.392 million / $1.566 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 58 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 496 tons, 11.9 %
     - Belts: 296 tons, 7.1 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
     - Armament: 14 tons, 0.3 %
     - Armour Deck: 186 tons, 4.5 %
     - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,542 tons, 37.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,303 tons, 31.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 532 tons, 12.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 225 tons, 5.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,641 lbs / 1,198 Kg = 25.6 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 12.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.554
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.47 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      21.98 ft / 6.70 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
     - Mid (63 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m (11.48 ft / 3.50 m aft of break)
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     - Stern:      11.48 ft / 3.50 m
     - Average freeboard:   16.83 ft / 5.13 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 137.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 10,195 Square feet or 947 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 69 lbs/sq ft or 337 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.88
      - Longitudinal: 3.13
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

miketr · January 29, 2009, 08:19:24 PM

I expected nothing less I am asking for a lot on the displacement. Ottomans need to push things so to speak and attempt to tweak designs to get the most they can. Hence they need minelayer and something to back up their other protected cruisers. Two things actually worked for them in the Balkan Wars. Mines and Light Forces. Their battleline didn't cut the mustard but it did have a chance even there. Still I think the Ottomans would work to reinforce what worked.

Michael

Tanthalas · January 29, 2009, 08:56:37 PM

Quote from: miketr on January 29, 2009, 08:19:24 PM
I expected nothing less I am asking for a lot on the displacement. Ottomans need to push things so to speak and attempt to tweak designs to get the most they can. Hence they need minelayer and something to back up their other protected cruisers. Two things actually worked for them in the Balkan Wars. Mines and Light Forces. Their battleline didn't cut the mustard but it did have a chance even there. Still I think the Ottomans would work to reinforce what worked.

Michael

im working on one mike ill post it when I get it right (its 50 tons to heavy atm)