Iberian Landing Ship

[miketr]

This is a first attempt at a landing ship designed to carry a full battalion of infantry (1,000 troops).  Speed isn't particularly important to me so I went with 10,000 SHP as long as it broke 18 knots; so the ship could keep up with the PDN's who would be tasked to do firesupport no doubt.

Looks to be well under the 2% point so would be built to merchant standards.  So $1.125 and 1.125 BP each.

LS-1, Iberia Landing Ship laid down 1916 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   4,500 t light; 4,629 t standard; 5,449 t normal; 6,104 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 52.49 ft x 12.30 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 16.00 m  x 3.75 m

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 232 lbs / 105 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 shp / 7,460 Kw = 18.96 kts
   Range 10,340nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,475 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   316 - 412

Cost:
   £0.398 million / $1.592 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 29 tons, 0.5 %
   Armour: 16 tons, 0.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 16 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 439 tons, 8.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,499 tons, 27.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 948 tons, 17.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2,518 tons, 46.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,606 lbs / 3,450 Kg = 73.9 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.41

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.750
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Stern:      12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.30 ft / 4.05 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,309 Square feet or 1,608 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 150 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 318 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.03
      - Longitudinal: 0.98
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

2,000 tons: (1,000 troops) (Naval Infantry Battalion)
300 tons: Four 25-ton landing craft (100 men or large cargo such as artillery), Ten 10-ton landing craft (40 men) and heavy lift cranes 100 tons
25 Tons: Long Range Radio
193 tons: Misc Cargo

Total 2,518 tons

[miketr]

I slightly larger size to all the enough boats to land the entire battalion in one shot.

$1.175 / 1.175 BP.  I would need six to land a Brigade I think.

A Brigade Kampfgruppe has 4 Battalions of Infantry, 4 MG sections, an artillery regiment of 12 mountain guns and a engineering company.  Hmmm...  5 boats might be enough as the MG sections just aren't that big and the HQ section would only be a 100 men.  I think five of these ships will do.  5.875 $ / BP.  Then again I already said a Brigade is 6K men so...  Six ships it is.

Michael

LS-1a, Iberia Landing Ship laid down 1916 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   4,700 t light; 4,836 t standard; 5,812 t normal; 6,592 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 52.49 ft x 12.30 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 16.00 m  x 3.75 m

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 232 lbs / 105 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 shp / 7,460 Kw = 18.68 kts
   Range 11,770nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,756 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   332 - 432

Cost:
   £0.409 million / $1.638 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 29 tons, 0.5 %
   Armour: 16 tons, 0.3 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 16 tons, 0.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 439 tons, 7.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,560 tons, 26.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,112 tons, 19.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 2,656 tons, 45.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,412 lbs / 3,815 Kg = 81.7 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.44

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.800
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Stern:      12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.62 ft / 4.15 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 18,061 Square feet or 1,678 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 154 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 319 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.02
      - Longitudinal: 0.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

2,000 tons: (1,000 troops) (Naval Infantry Battalion)
375 tons: Four 25-ton landing craft (100 men or large cargo such as artillery), Fifteen 10-ton landing craft (40 men) and heavy lift cranes 125 tons
250 tons: Misc Cargo
25 Tons: Long Range Radio
6 tons: Construction reserve

Total 2,656 tons

[The Rock Doctor]

I don't think there's enough freeboard to accommodate the 1,000 passengers, but otherwise I like.

[Carthaginian]

1000 troops are not going to sail anywhere standing up like horses.
Remember, it's not just the weight you have to consider, but the fact that you're going to need at least a 6'x3'x3' space for each soldier to sleep, and a place large enough for at least 200 or so to eat at once.

If you were to pack them in as tight as I have ever been bunked, you could fit roughly 100 in a space 10'x16'x50' (about the size of an army medium-size tent). Of course, that's 'breath in when your buddy breaths out because there's not enough air for everyone at once' kind of close... but doable.

Oh, that's also not allowing a bit of room for baggage, gear, ammunition, weapons, etc.

Basically, to quote another member- albeit a more famous one- there's "not enough deckspace" in that design for that many troops if they are billeted there for any length of time.... to say nothing of the landing craft.

[Korpen]

I don't think there's enough freeboard to accommodate the 1,000 passengers, but otherwise I like.

Well, there is misc weight for putting people in the superstructure. But using train cabins as guideline (3x2,2m for six people) it seems like most of the 1000 people would fit in cabins on a single deck.

But SS is weird when designing liners, transports and other volume limited ships, as increasing freeboard (more space) will decrease the number of people it can carry (less misc weight).

[miketr]

My problem is stability collapse when I put a reasonable free-board and misc weight.  I have been on a number of WW2 warships and those ship have people stacked 3 and 4 high on hanging bunk units.


Like these scroll down...

http://www.intrepidmuseum.org/getdoc/dac7e4d1-0a65-4085-b3b4-e9e9b2806fb9/Town-(Living-Spaces).aspx


I will try a larger ship design and see if I can fit 2,000 on it.

Michael

[miketr]

Here is try 2 with a higher freeboard and more beam.  Cost is 2.375 $ / BP per ship would need three for a brigade so 7.125 $ / BP.

This is roughly the size of a historic ship used for such mission.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMNZS_Monowai_(F59)

Michael

LS-2-1916, Iberia Landingship laid down 1916 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   9,500 t light; 9,750 t standard; 11,502 t normal; 12,905 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   492.13 ft / 492.13 ft x 62.34 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
   150.00 m / 150.00 m x 19.00 m  x 5.00 m

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 232 lbs / 105 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13,527 shp / 10,091 Kw = 18.50 kts
   Range 14,160nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,155 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   554 - 721

Cost:
   £0.720 million / $2.879 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 29 tons, 0.3 %
   Armour: 16 tons, 0.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 16 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 593 tons, 5.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,888 tons, 25.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,003 tons, 17.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,973 tons, 51.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,817 lbs / 7,628 Kg = 163.3 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.66

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.800
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.89 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 32
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Stern:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.11 ft / 5.22 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,809 Square feet or 2,491 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 155 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 79 lbs/sq ft or 386 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.02
      - Longitudinal: 0.99
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

4,000 tons: (2,000 troops) (Naval Infantry Regiment)
375 tons: Four 25-ton landing craft (100 men or large cargo such as artillery), Fifteen 10-ton landing craft (40 men) and heavy lift cranes 125 tons
100 tons: Cruiser Scale FC fire for firesupport
1473 tons: Misc Cargo
25 Tons: Long Range Radio

Total 5,973 tons

[miketr]

This is about the max freeboard I can get and not get a poor gunnery ship warning.

LS-2-1916a, Iberia Landingship laid down 1916 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   9,500 t light; 9,750 t standard; 11,502 t normal; 12,905 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   492.13 ft / 492.13 ft x 62.34 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
   150.00 m / 150.00 m x 19.00 m  x 5.00 m

Armament:
      2 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 232 lbs / 105 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13,527 shp / 10,091 Kw = 18.50 kts
   Range 14,160nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,155 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   554 - 721

Cost:
   £0.720 million / $2.879 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 29 tons, 0.3 %
   Armour: 16 tons, 0.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 16 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 593 tons, 5.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,411 tons, 29.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,003 tons, 17.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 5,450 tons, 47.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22,303 lbs / 10,117 Kg = 216.6 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.800
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.89 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 25
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      36.09 ft / 11.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   36.09 ft / 11.00 m (24.61 ft / 7.50 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Stern:      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   26.90 ft / 8.20 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 226.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,809 Square feet or 2,491 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 167 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 77 lbs/sq ft or 375 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.73
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

4,000 tons: (2,000 troops) (Naval Infantry Regiment)
375 tons: Four 25-ton landing craft (100 men or large cargo such as artillery), Fifteen 10-ton landing craft (40 men) and heavy lift cranes 125 tons
100 tons: Cruiser Scale FC fire for firesupport
950 tons: Misc Cargo
25 Tons: Long Range Radio

Total  5,450 tons

[Carthaginian]

Well, there is misc weight for putting people in the superstructure. But using train cabins as guideline (3x2,2m for six people) it seems like most of the 1000 people would fit in cabins on a single deck.

Would they fit?
Yes, sir, youbetcha.

Would they be in any kind of shape to fight when they got where they were going?
You're more likely to need longjohns in Hell.

A train car has room for you to sit, stand, and sleep. It does not have room for you to move around, exercise, maintain equipment, nor does it account for over 200 pounds of equipment per person (there are baggage cars for that) or a place to eat (that's in the dining car). Remember, this isn't for a 12-14 hour plane or train ride- this is for WEEKS AT A TIME. Bluntly, from having been packed that tight before, you won't have an army... you'll have a cramped-up bunch of aggravated men who are on the verge of mutiny.

[miketr]

Moving along...  Any comment on the larger designs?

Michael

[Carthaginian]

I think it's enough to give some small countries a reason to think very seriously about not angering the Iberians.

Half a dozen of them with some shallow-draft escorts and a pair of pre-dreads would be enough to make some larger nations think the same thing.

[Desertfox]

Time to start laying more mines, and continue work on Festung Zion...

I personally prefer the smaller ships, why waste valuable resources when you can just stuff them in.