UNK Ships for 1913-1915 (catchup)

[Carthaginian]

The UNK is woefully short on modern cruisers and destroyers, and thus this will be the focus of their shipbuilding plans during the catch-up period. This is my first idea on what is needed to fill that gap- comments/suggestions are welcome.



Cleveland, United Norman Kingdom Scout Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   3,900 t light; 4,062 t standard; 4,499 t normal; 4,848 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   420.00 ft / 410.00 ft x 45.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   128.02 m / 124.97 m x 13.72 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      12 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x3 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 606 lbs / 275 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   3 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   321.00 ft / 97.84 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 120 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -         1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 2 shafts, 36,000 shp / 26,856 Kw = 28.18 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 786 tons

Complement:
   274 - 357

Cost:
   £0.443 million / $1.772 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 82 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 648 tons, 14.4 %
      - Belts: 391 tons, 8.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 22 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 222 tons, 4.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 12 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,435 tons, 31.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,636 tons, 36.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 599 tons, 13.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,714 lbs / 1,685 Kg = 34.4 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.474
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.25 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22.62 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.74 ft / 5.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 120.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,012 Square feet or 1,116 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 75 lbs/sq ft or 368 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[miketr]

Not a bad design but the belt besides not being long enough is also rather thin vs. cruiser fire. 

Also you might want to give the ship some more Misc Weight.

Michael

[Carthaginian]

LOL... sometimes small changes can make big impacts.
Fixed it... SS was getting nitpicky about 0.91'.

[Guinness]

I agree on the belt. Reducing the height of it to 12' would get you an extra half inch, which should get the job done in most circumstances.

Now whether a 12' tall belt is tall enough is probably a matter we're about to debate ;)

[Carthaginian]

That's why it was only 2" thick. :D
I originally had a 2.5" belt that was 12' high, but unless I have 8 feet of it below the water, I'm going to risk exposing the hull at speed.

[P3D]

420' 4000t cruisers IMO has much lower 'wake' - dispacement is like half that of a similar length battleship.

[Carthaginian]

If 12' is considered 'protection' for game purposes, I'll go with that... it just seems a bit short to me. Of course, most of the boats I gauge stuff like that by are tugs, and those barges are mighty heavy and suck a lot of water past those boxy bows.

[P3D]

IIRC cruisers did not have much belt depth. For Hipper and various Japanese cruisers I can get belt depths of between 12'-15'. For the C, D, E classes ~10-12' plus 8" upper belt of same thickness to cover all the machinery spaces. For German pre-WWII K class about 10'. IIRC USN cruisers did not have very deep belt either.
It couldbe justified by that 6" shells lose velocity in water much faster than 15" ones.

Check that Russian website in the sources thread for pics (me too lazy).

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I also consider 2" to be the minimum. It keeps out all stuff lesser than 5,5". But I agree - 2,5"/3" better. P3D talked me into keeping my Small Cruisers' belts at 12'.
Should I add an Upper Belt over the machinery?
Borys

[Carthaginian]

Next are the smaller craft for the UNK...

They 'B Class' torpedo boat destroyers are made primarily for North Sea duty, and exchange range for added equipment. They make use of the extra equipment tonnage by carrying a newer, heavier 20" torpedo and minelaying equipment carrying 20 mines. Their armament is on par with other destroyers of the world and their speed is judged to be adequate. These ships break for current building patterns by not using turbo-electric drive; the electric motors for a ship this size proved to be unreliable, so they are instead powered by direct-drive turbines.



B Class, United Norman Kingdom Torpedo Boat Destroyer laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,043 t standard; 1,155 t normal; 1,245 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   305.00 ft / 300.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
   92.96 m / 91.44 m x 9.14 m  x 3.05 m

Armament:
      3 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 162 lbs / 73 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   5 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Conning tower: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 29.12 kts
   Range 2,400nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 202 tons

Complement:
   98 - 128

Cost:
   £0.143 million / $0.571 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 20 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 5 tons, 0.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 0.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 564 tons, 48.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 360 tons, 31.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 155 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 4.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     415 lbs / 188 Kg = 13.0 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.47
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 10.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.18
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.449
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.03 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.31 ft / 4.36 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,737 Square feet or 533 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 64 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 145 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.53
      - Longitudinal: 2.64
      - Overall: 0.63
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Mics. Weight
25t - Fire Control
  5t - Torpedoes
20t - Mines (20)

[Carthaginian]

And the smallest of the small...

The Pattern 3 torpedo boats are short-ranged patrols to free up destroyers for fleet duty. These small vessels carry the older, shorter-ranged 18" torpedoes. Units will likely be placed around the North Sea, English Channel and American coast. They will be of little or no use, however, in the Azores.



Pattern 3, United Norman Kingdom Torpedo Boat laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   340 t light; 349 t standard; 400 t normal; 441 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   220.00 ft / 215.00 ft x 18.50 ft x 8.50 ft (normal load)
   67.06 m / 65.53 m x 5.64 m  x 2.59 m

Armament:
      1 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 12.00lbs / 5.44kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      1 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.00lbs / 1.36kg shells, 1913 Model
     Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
     on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 16 lbs / 7 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   4 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 shp / 7,460 Kw = 28.02 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 92 tons

Complement:
   44 - 58

Cost:
   £0.047 million / $0.190 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 tons, 0.6 %
   Armour: 0 tons, 0.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 0 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 212 tons, 53.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 121 tons, 30.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 60 tons, 15.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 4 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     119 lbs / 54 Kg = 8.8 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 0.6 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 9.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.08
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.414
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.62 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19.65 degrees
   Stern overhang: -2.50 ft / -0.76 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (40 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   9.83 ft / 3.00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 50.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,470 Square feet or 229 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 49 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 19 lbs/sq ft or 95 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 3.22
      - Overall: 0.60
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

[The Rock Doctor]

That's a nifty little torpedo-boat. 

On the destroyer - the cross-sectional hull strength suggests you could probably squeeze another ~5-10 t of miscellaneous weight or (perhaps) enclosed deck mounts for the gunners.

[Carthaginian]

That's a nifty little torpedo-boat.

I was planning something similar for the CSA when I had it... luckily, the UNK had an area similar to the Straits of Florida that needed covering, so I got to use the design after all.

On the destroyer - the cross-sectional hull strength suggests you could probably squeeze another ~5-10 t of miscellaneous weight or (perhaps) enclosed deck mounts for the gunners.

Meh... I probably could, but honestly, I would prefer the added survivability over the covered mounts. Besides, it would only be enough metal to keep the water off; and since there are no hoists to the guns, it would wind up more trouble than it was worth regarding shell handling.

[Korpen]

And the smallest of the small...

Pattern 3, United Norman Kingdom Torpedo Boat laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   340 t light; 349 t standard; 400 t normal; 441 t full load


Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 shp / 7,460 Kw = 28.02 kts
   Range 2,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 92 tons

   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

I think you focus too much on the seakeeping. If you allow that number to go down you should be able to gain at least a knot more, which would be much more usefull.

[Carthaginian]

I think you focus too much on the seakeeping. If you allow that number to go down you should be able to gain at least a knot more, which would be much more usefull.

In the environments that these ships are intended for, the speed will be enough I think. They are made for the close quarters of the Celtic Sea, English Channel and Orkney Inlet. The distance they will have to travel to intercept targets will be minimum, and the targets will not have too many options for escape routes.

The seakeeping was as much an accident as anything else; all I was trying to do was keep it from being 'poor for it's size.'