Unionista Armoured Cruiser for 1917

[Sachmle]

Mike got me thinking, so I took a crack at one too. The upper belt only covers the casemate area. She's only 4k heavier than my last AC, so the progression makes sense. No jump from 9.4K to 20+K in one evolution.

Image based on parts by Wes Wilson, modified by me.
1917AC v 1, NUS Armoured Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   13,800 t light; 14,507 t standard; 16,232 t normal; 17,612 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 77.00 ft x 26.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 23.47 m  x 7.92 m

Armament:
      8 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (4x2 guns), 390.00lbs / 176.90kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4,362 lbs / 1,979 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   366.00 ft / 111.56 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   185.00 ft / 56.39 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     6.00 ft / 1.83 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 77,866 shp / 58,088 Kw = 28.60 kts
   Range 6,700nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,104 tons

Complement:
   718 - 934

Cost:
   £2.519 million / $10.074 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 557 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 4,336 tons, 26.7 %
      - Belts: 1,930 tons, 11.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 935 tons, 5.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,333 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 138 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 3,105 tons, 19.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,503 tons, 33.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,432 tons, 15.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.8 %
        - 100t FC
        - 25t WT
        - 20t Torpedoes
        - 155t Reserve

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,004 lbs / 8,167 Kg = 46.2 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.509
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,825 Square feet or 2,678 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 617 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.66
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Borys]

My idea, posted in MIke's thread, looks very much like your proposal. The difference is that the turrets are A-Bridge and stacks-Q-mainmast-[X]-Z
Borys

[miketr]

Not a bad design...

[P3D]

*Looks at own design, looks at NUS one*

Imitation is the sincerest  form of flattery. However, you should use capital ship FC at 250t (my ships were grandfathered so they have 100t ones). I'd consider the 6" guns unnecessary, but this ship obviously have somewhat different mission.

[Sachmle]

How about this? Thinned the deck armor a little, added 250t FC instead of 100t, added 1" to the face of the MB turrets, upped the range, and upped the speed (a little) on less tonnage.

1917AC v 2, NUS Armoured Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   13,715 t light; 14,427 t standard; 16,492 t normal; 18,144 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 77.00 ft x 26.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 23.47 m  x 7.92 m

Armament:
      8 - 9.20" / 234 mm guns (4x2 guns), 390.00lbs / 176.90kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 30.00lbs / 13.61kg shells, 1906 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4,362 lbs / 1,979 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   366.00 ft / 111.56 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   185.00 ft / 56.39 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     6.00 ft / 1.83 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79,989 shp / 59,672 Kw = 28.69 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,717 tons

Complement:
   726 - 945

Cost:
   £2.535 million / $10.139 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 557 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 4,097 tons, 24.8 %
      - Belts: 1,931 tons, 11.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 952 tons, 5.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,075 tons, 6.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 140 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,189 tons, 19.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,522 tons, 33.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,777 tons, 16.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     18,084 lbs / 8,203 Kg = 46.4 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 15.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.518
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 29,042 Square feet or 2,698 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 615 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.64
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

250t FC
25t WT
20t Torpedoes
55t Reserve

[Jefgte]

Why don't test a powerfull AC with 3T2x12"

Your modern 1911 model 12"/L45


;)

[Sachmle]

Don't want to jump from a 9.4K 9.2" AC to a 20+K 12" BC.

[Jefgte]

no 20 000t but 16500t

219x24x6.91
3T2x12"+12x120
B&T 230
Deck-45
90 000Shp-30kts

[Sachmle]

no 20 000t but 16500t

219x24x6.91
3T2x12"+12x120
B&T 230
Deck-45
90 000Shp-30kts

1. Longest slip/dock is 170m
2. Guns aren't an issue
3. Engine limited to 80,000shp.

[Jefgte]

This one...

12400T-3T2x12"-27kts, NUS Armored Cruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   12 400 t light; 13 028 t standard; 14 021 t normal; 14 816 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   554.46 ft / 554.46 ft x 75.46 ft x 22.56 ft (normal load)
   169.00 m / 169.00 m x 23.00 m  x 6.88 m

Armament:
      4 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (2x2 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (1x2 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5 935 lbs / 2 692 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.01" / 178 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   2.36" / 60 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     29.53 ft / 9.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   7.01" / 178 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      7.01" / 178 mm
   2nd:   7.01" / 178 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      7.01" / 178 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.77" / 45 mm, Conning tower: 7.01" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 57 000 shp / 42 522 Kw = 27.02 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 788 tons

Complement:
   643 - 837

Cost:
   £2.463 million / $9.851 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 742 tons, 5.3 %
   Armour: 3 048 tons, 21.7 %
      - Belts: 1 218 tons, 8.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 812 tons, 5.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 931 tons, 6.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 88 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 2 124 tons, 15.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 087 tons, 43.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 621 tons, 11.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 2.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16 490 lbs / 7 480 Kg = 19.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.520
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.35 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.90 ft / 8.20 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Mid (45 %):      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Stern:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.52 ft / 5.95 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 28 393 Square feet or 2 638 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 715 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.75
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Sachmle]

Not bad Jef. I may have to try something similar.

[Jefgte]

If you want an Escort Cruiser to help your BBs to do the work, repulse enemy Cruisers & DDs

On a similar hull, 4T2x12" but probably 24.5kts


;)

[Sachmle]

Actually I was looking more towards an independent action ship that could keep up with the newer ACs. It's intended role would be to take out CLs and to slow/hold off other ACs. If I wanted to build a BC I would use larger main guns, but her role is more that of what was intended for the 1st BCs, w/o the BB guns. I don't want to be tempted to pull a Fisher and use them against BCs or BBs just because they have large guns. And since that never happened in Nverse, I'd have no information to show how bad of an idea that is.