Confederate 2nd Class Cruiser

[Desertfox]

Its just that with all that open space aft it looks strange.

[P3D]

I thing both funnels should be centerline, not side-by-side. The boats can fit on the sides of the funnels.

[Carthaginian]

Ahoj!
You have to spread them out. With 15 degree elevation you won't get clearance.

You can blunder and do it first the RN way - with very narrow crossbecking arcs. Or if your designers are geniuses, you can do it like on the German BCs. But the first class being not exactly perfect would be nice.

Borys

I'll re-do her following the 'must rotate over other turret' idea (like Invincible) like I orignally intended to, but farther apart so that there is enough room that the gun tubes can make the swing with limited elevation. If only the muzzle and first few feet are required to pass over, that should be enough (and there can be more than 15 deg elevation, right?)

I thing both funnels should be centerline, not side-by-side. The boats can fit on the sides of the funnels.

I just did the funnels that way to make it look 'different.' I had two versions where they were centerline instead, but went with side-by-side on the premise that having the wing turrets forced the boiler rooms to be placed side-by-side in a shorter space,  rather than end-to-end along the centerline.




I'll work on it some more and edit the post to reflect the changes. Thanks for the imput guys, this is really helping me learn the 'dont's'  of ship design.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
On elevation.
In this period 15-20 degrees was more or less the limit. Why more if you are shoting at 6000 yards?  More elevation means bigger openings in the turret, and a deeper gunwell, neither desirable features. Either lower protection, or increase cost.

Funnels.
For feedback on twin funnels post this on Warship Designs.

Borys

[Carthaginian]

OK, I fixed the funnels, and hopefully the turrets are spread far enough now. If not, I'm going to have to relocate them entirely.

I did lower the amount of armor to 4.5 inches. Would this be adequate for a ship of this type, or would it need to be upped back to 5 inches?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Try to make it a  round 4,5 inch, or 5 inch. The program used to simulate combat uses half inch increments. So maybe round everything to full inches and half-inches.

Maybe funnels in front of the turrets?

I somehow find it difficult to visualize where would the trubines go. Maybe if you moved the front turret and superstructure forward ...

But like I said about the funnels - bounce this off the guys at Warships Projects.

Borys

[Carthaginian]

Ahoj!
Try to make it a  round 4,5 inch, or 5 inch. The program used to simulate combat uses half inch increments. So maybe round everything to full inches and half-inches.

Borys

Capital idea!

I can round down to a 4.5" and not loose any weight, according to the numbers at NavWeapons.

Done!

I did drop to a 50-pounder... compromised between SS's suggested weight and NavWeapon's actual weight.

[P3D]

The half-inch increments are for armor, guns can have basically any size...

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Drats - I was thinking about the arour, but didn't make it clear enough ...

Borys

[Carthaginian]

OK... I'll just put the guns back as they were.

It'll have to wait till later, though... work is such a horrid necessity, but it keeps my 'net up.

[swamphen]

Commentary on the guns...

CSA medium and heavy calibres, 1/1/06:

13.5"/40 BL Mk I, 1,250-pounder (just entering production - ?)
12"/35 BL Mk II, 850-pounder
12"/25 BL Mk I (obsolete)
10"/25 BL Mk I (obsolete)
9.2"/45 BL Mk III, 380-pounder
9.2"/35 BL Mk II (obsolete)
9.2"/25 BL Mk I  (obsolete)

7.5"/30 BL Mk I, 200-pounder (prematurely obsolete due to inefficient design)
6"/40 BL Mk II, 100-pounder
6"/30 BL Mk I (obsolete)
6"/10 ML Mk I (obsolete)
4.85"/45 QF Mk I, 55-pounder
4"/45 QF Mk II, 25-pounder

57mm/6-pdr, 47mm/3-pdr, and 25mm/0.5-pdr guns are also rostered.


So the secondaries should be the 4.85"/55-pdr guns, and a new 7.5"/200-pdr would be a wise investment.  ;)

Now as for the design, I like it - I would actually expect an A-Bs-X turret arrangement though, following the layout of the Florida-class "Arcadias" and the Evil Overlord's Handbook (do not have guns that can shoot at each other  8) ).

[Carthaginian]

OK, here's the next (and hopefully last) attempt.

I intend these ships to replace Ashby and Morgan in the Gulf of Mexico. Their 7.5" guns are judged to be 'adequate' for the task, and their smaller size means that more tubes can be fitted (for more opportunities to hit) and that overall ship size can be reduced (making the ship cheaper). The secondaries are also reduced to 25-pounders, making them easier to aim at smaller, faster-moving targets.

It is hoped that soon a new 7.5"/200-pounder will be developed, and that the ships will be refitted to take them. Till then, the ones available will have to suffice.

Mobile, Confederate States of America 2nd Class cruiser laid down 1905

Displacement:
   7,239 t light; 7,611 t standard; 8,585 t normal; 9,364 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   545.00 ft / 545.00 ft x 58.00 ft x 18.50 ft (normal load)
   166.12 m / 166.12 m x 17.68 m  x 5.64 m

Armament:
      4 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (2x2 guns), 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 25.00lbs / 11.34kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     20 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2,148 lbs / 974 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.25" / 133 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   2.30" / 58 mm   245.00 ft / 74.68 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
     Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.25" / 133 mm   2.30" / 58 mm      5.25" / 133 mm
   2nd:   5.25" / 133 mm   2.30" / 58 mm      5.25" / 133 mm
   3rd:   2.30" / 58 mm   2.30" / 58 mm      2.30" / 58 mm
   4th:   0.53" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.30" / 58 mm, Conning tower: 5.25" / 133 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,582 shp / 14,608 Kw = 22.25 kts
   Range 9,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,753 tons

Complement:
   445 - 579

Cost:
   £0.710 million / $2.841 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 297 tons, 3.5 %
   Armour: 2,280 tons, 26.6 %
      - Belts: 1,064 tons, 12.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 261 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 908 tons, 10.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0.6 %
   Machinery: 1,483 tons, 17.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,094 tons, 36.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,346 tons, 15.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 85 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,542 lbs / 5,689 Kg = 59.5 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
   Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 12.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.46

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.514
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.35 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,329 Square feet or 1,982 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 96 lbs/sq ft or 469 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.07
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Now as for the design, I like it - I would actually expect an A-Bs-X turret arrangement though, following the layout of the Florida-class "Arcadias" and the Evil Overlord's Handbook (do not have guns that can shoot at each other  8) ).

The Florida's are no more; I have a BB design to replace them in the works.
And I don't like guns that can shoot each other any more than the next Overlord (minions are stupid, sometimes), but these are a necessary evil.

[Ithekro]

If those were the Rohirrim's turbines they would be 23,000 shp.  It might not get you much, maybe 22.5 knots.

[Carthaginian]

I'm fairly happy with the speed. This is meant to be a lower-cost unit to replace dated, expensive units in an area that I don't expect to see much heavy action. If that action occurs, I'll have the old units in reserve to help bolster strength... but they won't be eating up more money than they are worth.