Map of China

[Logi]

The government of Burma? You are kidding right? Just what do you really know about Burma, real or Nverse?

It was done as a result of RP, involving another player.

On the plateau, Logi and the east shield wall of the mountains, and the rivers  that flows into and across it. You don't know the geography at all, do you?

Well, you can't read maps at all can you?

You want an easy invasion route. So magically  you assume now the Burmese will do what you cannot do for them and that your easy half + their hard half means instant access? Nope. If you can't do it for them, they haven't got a  prayer. You just blew your own argument up here. 

I am told my moderators I am not allowed to expand, hence your point is mute.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Some IIRC referrences:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yunnan–Vietnam_Railway
Pretty much the same terrain, even though I believe it runs more ALONG the mountan ranges, than ACROSS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yunnan-Burma_Railway
The aborted RL effort - apparently a 5-6 year job.

As to the natives - the tribesmen don't give a shit what the Burmese in Rangoon/Mandaly think. They are a different nationality anyway ...

I would had built this out of the military budget, and multiplied the "as the crow flies" distance by two or three.

Borys

[damocles]

I can read a map Logi. I do it every day. But thank you for the criticism.  I will treat it as I do that photo, as being at variant with the topic discussed. You will find that I can read a map very well when the time comes.

http://www.satelliteviews.net/cgi-bin/w.cgi/?c=bm&DG=PLAT

   

[Logi]

Well if you are done trolling, you can stop spamming now. We can both read maps, I do so every day as well. There is no need to call into question our abilities reading maps, I can quite guarantee we both have sufficient ability in that direction. And I did treat that as a variant of the discussion at hand, a response to your variant off the topic.

In any case, I've already answered your concerns, repeating the question will not yield a different answer.

Paukindaung, Shan Plateau, Ta-ok Plateau, Shan Upland, the maps you have pointed out in your link, all do not touch my route. Hence it goes to prove again, you refuse to read anything concerning my route and have objections with only the name Burma. If you would break out of your stubborn mindset believing nothing in Burma is possible and actually look at the route in question, that would solve many of your questions.



Reposting the map

[damocles]

1. Don't get personal.
2. Discuss the terrain, weather, tech, economics issues and not extraneous insult issues.
3. Where are the workers dead, tech invested, and money spent in NVerse claims to cover that horrible ground, you claimed you covered?*
=================================================
*1. For example: I have a continuous investment of 1BP and 2.50$ in railroad and I laid nowhere near the track you claimed, nor bought as much rolling stock as you would actually need nor the equipment that you would have to have to build to create that railroad, nor made the claims you made in those regards.

2. I didn't see any French power shovels, Bavarian dump trucks, Dutch road rollers, or Italian road dragger/scrapers mentioned, or even 100,000 Burmese slaves with saws, axes, stone hammers, strike drills, blasting powder,  picks, shovels, nail hammers, and, pound poles: clearing land, draining land, scraping land with shovels to smooth it, pounding the ground flat and compressed, so that the gravel that the hammer and masonry crews broke boulders into, could be laid as the drain field for and used as an elevated support for the sleepers that the rails that the Burmese cannot make that they had to buy from the French, BC, Bavarians, the Normans, or US, because those nations and we are the only ones who can make the correct steels to make such I beam rails., would be laid upon?

3. No; you have not described  or even pretended to describe the herculean effort that railroad would be, and what it cost you as a nation. Contrast that with what I just did, as I described in two paragraphs what it would take to even start, and as now I add the detail of 20 lives lost for every 100 meters of track  laid, and the enormous cost in foreign materials purchased and imported, of the work halts, caused by the monsoons, of the disheartening setbacks to the surveyors and engineers, as annual floods of the Irrawaddy and other rivers wash out not dozens of kilometers of roadbed, but hundreds of kilometers, as the ground they selected wrong, in the central plateau floods goes to slurry and their carefully laid roadbeds wash away. Heat is so great that work crews drop out from just standing in place, because in a land where there is too much water, most of it unfit to drink, somebody forgot to make sure the work crews take a 10 minute break on the hour and that they have cool potable water and SALT, to replace what they sweat out throwing sleepers and rails by hand??        

Sure that I don't know the country or the effort required here?

Are you sure? Because I simply don't see you make a good case here that you do, Logi.

With respect,

Damocles.        
======================================
PS: the regions I showed you are the DEVELOPED resource areas of the Burmese plateau as seen from satellite.

There was a reason I picked those spots. They are terrain representative of where the Burmese can build or as engineers would say GOOD GROUND. The rest of the ground is worse.

I told you I read maps....

[Logi]

*1. For example: I have a continuous investment of 1BP and 2.50$ in railroad and I laid nowhere near the track you claimed, nor bought as much rolling stock as you would actually need nor the equipment that you would have to have to build to create that railroad, nor made the claims you made in those regards.

Moderator dictated special case for my railroads.

2. I didn't see any French power shovels, Bavarian dump trucks, Dutch road rollers, or Italian road dragger/scrapers mentioned, or even 100,000 Burmese slaves with saws, axes, stone hammers, strike drills, blasting powder,  picks, shovels, nail hammers, and, pound poles: clearing land, draining land, scraping land with shovels to smooth it, pounding the ground flat and compressed, so that the gravel that the hammer and masonry crews broke boulders into, could be laid as the drain field for and used as an elevated support for the sleepers that the rails that the Burmese cannot make that they had to buy from the French, BC, Bavarians, the Normans, or US, because those nations and we are the only ones who can make the correct steels to make such I beam rails., would be laid upon?

This is N-Verse, not IRL, therefore the nations that can produce machinery adequate to handle such things is dispersed more widely. Granted, the Burmese may not be able to, but the southern Chinese should have adequate knowledge to conduct such operations.

3. No; you have not described  or even pretended to describe the herculean effort that railroad would be, and what it cost you as a nation. Contrast that with what I just did, as I described in two paragraphs what it would take to even start, and as now I add the detail of 20 lives lost for every 100 meters of track  laid, and the enormous cost in foreign materials purchased and imported, of the work halts, caused by the monsoons, of the disheartening setbacks to the surveyors and engineers, as annual floods of the Irrawaddy and other rivers wash out not dozens of kilometers of roadbed, but hundreds of kilometers, as the ground they selected wrong, in the central plateau floods goes to slurry and their carefully laid roadbeds wash away. Heat is so great that work crews drop out from just standing in place, because in a land where there is too much water, most of it unfit to drink, somebody forgot to make sure the work crews take a 10 minute break on the hour and that they have cool potable water and SALT, to replace what they sweat out throwing sleepers and rails by hand??

I don't need to describe what you were not here for. You joined after this railroad was completed.

1. Don't get personal.

Sure that I don't know the country or the effort required here?

Are you sure? Because I simply don't see you make a good case here that you do, Logi.

Who's getting personnel? It appears you are the one.

2. Discuss the terrain, weather, tech, economics issues and not extraneous insult issues.
3. Where are the workers dead, tech invested, and money spent in NVerse claims to cover that horrible ground, you claimed you covered?*

2. I returned an insult that you chose to deliver out of the blue. I do not intend to discuss insults.
3. Look in my sim reports. Maybe you should look there before crying bloody mercy.

PS: the regions I showed you are the DEVELOPED resource areas of the Burmese plateau as seen from satellite.

There was a reason I picked those spots. They are terrain representative of where the Burmese can build or as engineers would say GOOD GROUND. The rest of the ground is worse.

I told you I read maps....

Did I say I doubt your ability to read maps? I do believe I explained in the last post that we all have the ability to read maps, and it is not a special skill limited to one.

You fail to understand. The grounds you pointed out at not even along the route, or even close. To put it another way; if I had to walk from point A to point B (distance of 1 mi) and there was a point C 100 mi away from either point; showing me point C does not, in any way, contribute to the discuss of how to get from point A to B.

[Sachmle]

You fail to understand. The grounds you pointed out at not even along the route, or even close. To put it another way; if I had to walk from point A to point B (distance of 1 mi) and there was a point C 100 mi away from either point; showing me point C does not, in any way, contribute to the discuss of how to get from point A to B.

Correct. However he's not showing you point C to show you how to get from A to B, he's using C as an example of how crappy it is in the GOOD parts, let alone A and B which are WORSE.

[Logi]

Correct. However he's not showing you point C to show you how to get from A to B, he's using C as an example of how crappy it is in the GOOD parts, let alone A and B which are WORSE.

I would have preferred such a simple statement rather than insulting my ability to read maps or know geography.

However, this statement still does not mean the construction is impossible, merely difficult.

[damocles]

You have not addressed the actual issues discussed.

I'm done here as this is a discussion that will be settled in game when the mods rule. Just to be clear though,  your Sim reports and your claims are not valid game support for the declarations you made here.

And where did I tell you to shut up, called you a troll or a spammer?  

I argued the land, the weather, the money, the tech, the lives. I did not argue the person except...

Sure that I don't know the country or the effort required here?

Are you sure? Because I simply don't see you make a good case here that you do, Logi.

With respect,

Damocles.

Well if you are done trolling, you can stop spamming now.

Quod erat demonstratum.

[Logi]

On the plateau, Logi and the east shield wall of the mountains, and the rivers  that flows into and across it. You don't know the geography at all, do you? 

Quod erat demonstratum.

I consider that statement, trolling. And the further posts repeating the same point as spamming. Hence, you were trolling and spamming.

[Guinness]

I'm locking this thread. The mods are discussing the issue of the Burma Railroad.