Logi's Design Studies

[Logi]

Recoil - due to high angle (40-60 degrees) lateral recoil will be less but downward recoil greater - possibly call for some local strengthening around the barbette/turret - perhaps consult the moderators on this ...

If I remember correctly, I didn't anything like that on a previous ship (that I've seen) with mortars.

[Logi]

My latest design. To be used in BB vs BB fights.

ZhiSou, ROC Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   23,000 t light; 24,358 t standard; 26,788 t normal; 28,732 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   630.00 ft / 630.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   192.02 m / 192.02 m x 28.04 m  x 7.62 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 85.00lbs / 38.56kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 14,560 lbs / 6,604 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   230.00 ft / 70.10 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Upper:   1.50" / 38 mm   630.00 ft / 192.02 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   25.00 ft / 7.62 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 27,321 shp / 20,382 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,373 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1,046 - 1,361

Cost:
   £4.120 million / $16.479 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,539 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 9,843 tons, 36.7 %
      - Belts: 4,235 tons, 15.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 740 tons, 2.8 %
      - Armament: 1,360 tons, 5.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,277 tons, 12.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 231 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,198 tons, 4.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,919 tons, 37.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,788 tons, 14.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38,626 lbs / 17,521 Kg = 28.2 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.647
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.85 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.10 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.00 ft / 4.27 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.09 ft / 4.29 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 110.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,281 Square feet or 4,114 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 176 lbs/sq ft or 859 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[miketr]

Armor Deck is a little thick and speed is on the lower end for a DN.  Also I would increase the CT armor to match the turret / main belt armor.

Michael

[P3D]

Too long, too shallow and slightly overarmored, plus you have a single drydock to build+maintain her.

[Logi]

Now build to withstand her own shells at a distance of 13kyd

ZhiSou, Republic of China Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   22,000 t light; 23,336 t standard; 25,657 t normal; 27,513 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.04 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 85.00lbs / 38.56kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 14,562 lbs / 6,605 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   207.00 ft / 63.09 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Upper:   1.50" / 38 mm   557.00 ft / 169.77 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   25.00 ft / 7.62 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   17.0" / 432 mm   10.0" / 254 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 16.00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 39,581 shp / 29,527 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,177 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1,013 - 1,317

Cost:
   £4.193 million / $16.774 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,540 tons, 6.0 %
   Armour: 9,012 tons, 35.1 %
      - Belts: 4,242 tons, 16.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 648 tons, 2.5 %
      - Armament: 1,646 tons, 6.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,177 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 300 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 1,736 tons, 6.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,248 tons, 36.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,657 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 465 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     30,895 lbs / 14,014 Kg = 22.5 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.649
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.02 ft / 4.58 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 39,221 Square feet or 3,644 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 881 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.38
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Guinness]

This ship is much better, in that it fits in a type 2 dock. Do you mean to have the guns not superfiring though? IIRC only the french have every built a non-superfiring abxy arrangement BB*.

Still her armor scheme is, well, strange. Her belt is too thick (IMHO). Her upper belt is quite thin for a non-AON ship, though I see what you're going for there with a more or less uniform armor for her secondary battery.

Otherwise, she might be a little wet, but in the South China Sea at least, that's probably ok.

* "French looking" is just my code for ugly. Sorry Maddox.

[Logi]

No, I meant it to be in two turrets, quadruple guns like it says. I'm getting the mount for the guns.

After using Big Gun (because its easy for me to understand) I realized at that at 13kyd battles (unlikely but hey some people have 18kyd rangefinders) I would need over 15" of belt to avoid penetration. So I made the belt 16".

The upper belt is because last time people complained that I gave upper belts too much armor (3') now its too little armor ;) It will be fixed.

yea, around Asia the waves aren't that high. besides I know it might be a little wet so the ammunition isn't stored on deck (well with the exception of the AA guns)

I just like ships without a sloped bow. Like all things, there are certain exceptions.

[Logi]

A much larger version of the same ship. Built with the CSA and French battleships in mind (because there aren't many first-rate BBs in the Pacific)

Supposedly superior to Tennessee, Occitanie, Brasil, Islas Malvinas, Imperator, Erzatz Lyn II..... Basically better than any known battleship (doesn't include battlecruisers)

Immunity Zone - All known Naval Guns - 13kyd ~17.5kyd

Can be completed in 41 months (3.5 years)

Designed for the fun because I don't have the BP.

ZhiSou, Republic of China Battleship laid down 1918

Displacement:
   32,000 t light; 33,962 t standard; 38,680 t normal; 42,455 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   640.00 ft / 640.00 ft x 105.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
   195.07 m / 195.07 m x 32.00 m  x 9.45 m

Armament:
      12 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1918 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 21,142 lbs / 9,590 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   240.00 ft / 73.15 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   640.00 ft / 195.07 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
     Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.50" / 64 mm   400.00 ft / 121.92 m   25.00 ft / 7.62 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   17.0" / 432 mm   10.0" / 254 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 15.00" / 381 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 68,217 shp / 50,890 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8,493 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   1,378 - 1,792

Cost:
   £6.730 million / $26.919 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,226 tons, 5.8 %
   Armour: 12,427 tons, 32.1 %
      - Belts: 5,434 tons, 14.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 925 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armament: 2,841 tons, 7.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,857 tons, 7.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 370 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 2,680 tons, 6.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,927 tons, 36.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,680 tons, 17.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 740 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     47,723 lbs / 21,647 Kg = 34.8 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 8.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.10 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.30 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.53 ft / 5.34 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 51,473 Square feet or 4,782 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,007 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[P3D]

You should start designing ships that will get built ;)

[Logi]

:D Maybe I should. Things get in the way of me building my ships, like wars.

Actually since I have 8.5BP per half-year, I can get gather 32 BP within 2 years. I'll reserve the design until I have more BP to throw around. Not like I'm fighting France and CSA yet.

My designs = my ship designs can outdo your ship designs :D

[Jefgte]

If you use 4BPs by half year, you could built a 32000t in 4 years...

not irealist

You have 4.5BPs for Cruisers & DDs.



;)

[Logi]

An interesting prospect! Hmm....

I'm just worried it will be old by the time it is completed (as in the other's have better ships already).

[maddox]

Already layed down and in build.

[Korpen]

An interesting prospect! Hmm....

I'm just worried it will be old by the time it is completed (as in the other's have better ships already).

Then build several smaller ones, and do not put so many eggs in a single basket.

[maddox]

A most logical conclusion Korpen.

32 Ktons of military steel means up to a 100 really useable TB's. That delivers a wave of 400 20" torpedo's if used well.