Logi's Design Studies

[Logi]

RRC has no real in-between caliber for 11"-14". The choices are 11"/45, 12"/40, 13"/30, or 14"/45. It was discussed a while ago that four guns was the practical limit for any FC. 4 gun ships would be greatly hampered by the limited gun to find the range, but can do it. 6 guns is passable, and 8 guns is good.

Also the large caliber shells traveling at decent velocity make fighting at range easier on the FCS and the gunner.

[Logi]

It's back. Idea is 5-7" of armor can't protect anything over a 4" plate so why up-armor it in the first place? So belt is 4" sloped, protected against DD/TB/CL fire, but nothing else.

Main battery A-B-Y no superfiring twins

Secondary mounted in this fashion:
_S_S
G_G_G

With G = ground, S = superfiring

Turrets are armored heavily like a battleship, it is "all" part of this extreme AoN scheme. At the very least, this ship won't likely go up in a magazine explosion.

Minimalist Concept Study,  Light Battlecruiser laid down 1923

Displacement:
   17,000 t light; 17,906 t standard; 19,393 t normal; 20,583 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   520.00 ft / 520.00 ft x 93.00 ft x 26.00 ft (normal load)
   158.50 m / 158.50 m x 28.35 m  x 7.92 m

Armament:
      6 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,687.50lbs / 765.44kg shells, 1923 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
      20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1923 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1923 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 11,402 lbs / 5,172 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   338.00 ft / 103.02 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 69,513 shp / 51,857 Kw = 26.50 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,677 tons

Complement:
   821 - 1,068

Cost:
   £6.160 million / $24.639 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,425 tons, 7.3 %
   Armour: 4,001 tons, 20.6 %
      - Belts: 1,017 tons, 5.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,318 tons, 12.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 603 tons, 3.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 62 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,323 tons, 12.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,839 tons, 45.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,393 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 411 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22,049 lbs / 10,001 Kg = 13.1 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Stern:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.51 ft / 6.86 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 33,430 Square feet or 3,106 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 187 lbs/sq ft or 913 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.45
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Deck covers only armored box (338 ft), thus real armor is 1.5" (38mm) over the 338 ft of the protected box.

Main Belt sloped 20 degrees, true vertical height is 16 ft.

Misc Weight (411 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
111t Construction Reserve

[Logi]

Armament layout is to keep stability at 1.09. Everything fits, see Imperatritsa Mariya, etc. Russian ships.

Heavy deck armor in comparison to belt armor because the weight required for a jump from 1.5"-2.5" was much less than weight required to go from 4"-8". There wasn't enough weight to go 4"-8" but there was extra weight available so I went from 1.5" deck to 2.5" deck.

Minimalist Concept Study,  Light Battlecruiser laid down 1923

Displacement:
   17,000 t light; 17,954 t standard; 19,450 t normal; 20,647 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 87.00 ft x 26.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 26.52 m  x 7.92 m

Armament:
      10 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4 mounts), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1923 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1923 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1923 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 9,917 lbs / 4,498 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   363.00 ft / 110.64 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.63" / 41 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 89,027 shp / 66,414 Kw = 28.50 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,693 tons

Complement:
   823 - 1,070

Cost:
   £5.972 million / $23.888 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,240 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 4,097 tons, 21.1 %
      - Belts: 1,077 tons, 5.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,948 tons, 10.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,010 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 62 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,975 tons, 15.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,287 tons, 42.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,450 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,227 lbs / 9,628 Kg = 24.6 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Stern:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.75 ft / 6.93 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 33,514 Square feet or 3,114 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 169 lbs/sq ft or 827 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.09
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Main battery A-B-X-Y, Twin-Triple   -Superstructure-    Triple-Twin
Secondary battery G-R-G-R-G per side, superimposed.

Deck covers only armored box (363 ft), thus real armor is 2.5" (64mm) over the 363 ft of the protected box.

Main Belt sloped 20 degrees, true vertical height is 16 ft.

Misc Weight (350 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
50t Construction Reserve

[Jefgte]

IMO,
Reduce armament to 4T2x12" + 8M2x5" &... increase the thickness of the belt


Jef

[Logi]

I feel there's nothing spectacular about the ship.

It has average firepower, average speed for a battlecruiser, average armor for a battlecruiser. What would be the point of building it unless you had lots of BP? What could such a ship do that another ship couldn't? I feel in this case, being decent all-around isn't an advantage.

Anything that can't fight it can probably outrun it. Anything that can't outrun it can fight it and win. And with only 8 barrels, that's an average firepower. It doesn't have enough barrels to effectively soft kill another ship, it doesn't have the power to hard kill a ship.

It doesn't even have a powerful secondary, just an average secondary. What can this ship do that another ship can't do better?

Minimalist Concept Study,  Light Battlecruiser laid down 1923

Displacement:
   17,000 t light; 17,839 t standard; 19,329 t normal; 20,521 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 87.00 ft x 26.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 26.52 m  x 7.92 m

Armament:
      8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1923 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1923 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1923 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 7,939 lbs / 3,601 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.86" / 200 mm   363.00 ft / 110.64 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      7.50" / 191 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.63" / 41 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 88,527 shp / 66,041 Kw = 28.50 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,682 tons

Complement:
   819 - 1,065

Cost:
   £5.361 million / $21.444 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 992 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 4,736 tons, 24.5 %
      - Belts: 2,115 tons, 10.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,552 tons, 8.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,007 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 62 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,959 tons, 15.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,913 tons, 40.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,329 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22,768 lbs / 10,327 Kg = 26.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.537
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Stern:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.18 ft / 6.76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 33,408 Square feet or 3,104 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 163 lbs/sq ft or 796 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.05
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Secondary battery G-R-G-G per side, superimposed.

Deck covers only armored box (363 ft), thus real armor is 2.5" (64mm) over the 363 ft of the protected box.

Main Belt sloped 20 degrees, true vertical height is 16 ft.

Misc Weight (350 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
50t Construction Reserve

[Jefgte]

I feel there's nothing spectacular about the ship.

It has average firepower, average speed for a battlecruiser, average armor for a battlecruiser. What would be the point of building it unless you had lots of BP? What could such a ship do that another ship couldn't? I feel in this case, being decent all-around isn't an advantage.

Anything that can't fight it can probably outrun it. Anything that can't outrun it can fight it and win. And with only 8 barrels, that's an average firepower. It doesn't have enough barrels to effectively soft kill another ship, it doesn't have the power to hard kill a ship.

It doesn't even have a powerful secondary, just an average secondary. What can this ship do that another ship can't do better?

Your answer is the name of the SS

Minimalist Concept Study,  Light Battlecruiser laid down 1923...

Jef  ;)

[Logi]

But I can make a better ship with similar specs, smaller on another hull. Maybe I just love excess firepower.

I much prefer the 32 kts HHxLM Modern designs over the Minimalist 8x12". Far more useful for the same tonnage.

[ctwaterman]

Egg Shells Armed with Sledge Hammers....

But Yes Fisher would be proud.... ;)

[eltf177]

Egg Shells Armed with Sledge Hammers....

But Yes Fisher would be proud.... ;)

As would the IJN...

[Logi]

Egg Shells Armed with Sledge Hammers....

Not so true;

With 4" belt inclined 20 degrees, it defends against 9.2" shells to within ~8000 yds (according to NavWep on weapons of this period). It does not, unfortunately, as I checked, defend against 10" and up guns.

Also, the turret is well armored.

[Delta Force]

Egg Shells Armed with Sledge Hammers....

Not so true;

With 4" belt inclined 20 degrees, it defends against 9.2" shells to within ~8000 yds (according to NavWep on weapons of this period). It does not, unfortunately, as I checked, defend against 10" and up guns.

Also, the turret is well armored.

This ship would have worked in 1910, but not now. It is too slow to catch destroyers and light cruisers, and lacks the armor and gun range to take on newer dreadnoughts. Also, the current crop of dreadnoughts don't have to sacrifice as much for battlecruiser speed anymore. I have a plan for a new dreadnought with eight 15 inch guns, a speed of 27.5 knots, and battleship level armor (including a much thicker than common deck). Against the new crop of ships, it can't hurt anything and can't even run away.

[Nobody]

Egg Shells Armed with Sledge Hammers....

Not so true;

With 4" belt inclined 20 degrees, it defends against 9.2" shells to within ~8000 yds (according to NavWep on weapons of this period). It does not, unfortunately, as I checked, defend against 10" and up guns.

Also, the turret is well armored.

I don't believe your ship can offer much protection against anything bigger than a 5" to 6" gun. Take the German 20,3 cm gun (Hipper-class), which I think is mediocre, for example:
Armor Penetration (navweaps)
269 lbs. (122 kg) HE Shell Spr. gr. L/4,7
10,389 yards (9,500 m)    2.0" (5 cm) of Homogenous [deck] armor
269 lbs. (122 kg) AP Shell Pz. Spr. Ggr. L/4,4
10,389 yards (9,500 m)    9.4" (24 cm) of Face-hardened [belt] armor

[Sachmle]

A 9.2"/50 firing a 380lbs round at 10.25* goes to 15,800yds and if DECAPPED (or SAP/Common) will still penetrate 4.01" of 20* sloped armor. So, unless you fight outside 16k you're hurt by cruisers, let alone battleships/battlecruisers. Now, I'm sure it works fine against 6" Light Cruisers, and even against some 8" armed ships firing SAP or Common. HE would be no issue, obviously so nothing to fear from 5" or small guns.

Now, can you outrun a 29kt BC w/ 15" guns and the armor to take some rounds, cuz the Dutch have 2-3 of those and the Norman's are building some, so are the Rohhirm. Now, I know the argument will be, "But they're 35-40k + ships, this is only a 17k ship." and you'd be right. However, what can this 17k ship kill that a similar or smaller ship with 8-10" guns and 30+kts can't? Plus, those 30kts+ ships can run from the 28-29kt BCs, this can't, or barely at best.

[Logi]

I don't believe your ship can offer much protection against anything bigger than a 5" to 6" gun. Take the German 20,3 cm gun (Hipper-class), which I think is mediocre, for example:
Armor Penetration (navweaps)
269 lbs. (122 kg) HE Shell Spr. gr. L/4,7
10,389 yards (9,500 m)    2.0" (5 cm) of Homogenous [deck] armor
269 lbs. (122 kg) AP Shell Pz. Spr. Ggr. L/4,4
10,389 yards (9,500 m)    9.4" (24 cm) of Face-hardened [belt] armor

And when was the Hipper gun created? Oh right, 1934. With hard caps etc. Navalism is stuck in soft-cap period projectiles.

A 9.2"/50 firing a 380lbs round at 10.25* goes to 15,800yds and if DECAPPED (or SAP/Common) will still penetrate 4.01" of 20* sloped armor. So, unless you fight outside 16k you're hurt by cruisers, let alone battleships/battlecruisers. Now, I'm sure it works fine against 6" Light Cruisers, and even against some 8" armed ships firing SAP or Common. HE would be no issue, obviously so nothing to fear from 5" or small guns.

Britain
9.2"/47 (23.4 cm) Mark X

Range    Vertical KC Plate
3,000 yards (2,740 m)    9.7 in (24.6 cm)
6,000 yards (5,480 m)    7.7 in (19.6 cm)
9,000 yards (8,230 m)    5.3 in (13.5 cm)
Note:  These figures are from "The Grand Fleet:  Warship Design and Development 1906-1922" and assume a 90 degree inclination.  These trials were conducted with salt-filled (blind) shells and almost certainly overstate the performance of British shells of the early twentieth century.

I would have thought that with this large cavity, which was exactly the same as in World War I, the 9.2" Mark XIIA APC would have had problems with projectile breakup against thick armor at moderate obliquity (circa 1-caliber-thick plate at around 30 degrees obliquity).  However, this was not the case.  In fact, these projectiles -- both the US and British designs -- are, from the tests I have seen, THE BEST BRITISH APC PROJECTILES EVER MADE!

Granted, old weapon. However, most N-Verse weapons at not 50 caliber. Also I don't know where you are getting that figure Samchle, because running through NAaB I get 11,000 yds for immunity on belt. Not to mention the effective deck is 2.5" so immunity for the deck extends 18,000 yds in.

Against the Russian 14" the deck protection extends from 12,000 yds in. The belt is something we don't need to talk about because the belt was made to withstand cruiser fire, not battleship fire. I even said it.

It's back. Idea is 5-7" of armor can't protect anything over a 4" plate so why up-armor it in the first place? So belt is 4" sloped, protected against DD/TB/CL fire, but nothing else.

Now, can you outrun a 29kt BC w/ 15" guns and the armor to take some rounds, cuz the Dutch have 2-3 of those and the Norman's are building some, so are the Rohhirm. Now, I know the argument will be, "But they're 35-40k + ships, this is only a 17k ship."

Wrong argument. They are minimalist designs, so that is expected.

Attempts to make something run faster than these behemoths going at 30+kt cost too much tonnage and end up with a very under-gunned alternative. What can such a ship bring to the table that a faster ship can't? Firepower. Speed is pointless if you lack the firepower to sink or soft-kill your target. The problem with such high speed ships is that if they encounter even a smaller ship, if designed in the fashion of Valles, etc. it would be useless.

As I had shown before, the alternative to having more small caliber guns for soft-killing was to have a few large guns (see the 2x2 14" Superheavy). The alternative? You see with the HH&LM Modern designs.

Yes, the 12" designs are a tad lack luster, even the 4x3 12" redesign of the same SS is a bit underwhelming. I much prefer the 6x15" design, but that is the trade off of soft-kill vs hard-kill.

This ship would have worked in 1910, but not now. It is too slow to catch destroyers and light cruisers, and lacks the armor and gun range to take on newer dreadnoughts. Also, the current crop of dreadnoughts don't have to sacrifice as much for battlecruiser speed anymore. I have a plan for a new dreadnought with eight 15 inch guns, a speed of 27.5 knots, and battleship level armor (including a much thicker than common deck). Against the new crop of ships, it can't hurt anything and can't even run away.

Who said it is to catch cruisers and destroyers? What sane man designs a ship that catches cruisers and destroyer to hold 12" guns? That is overkill to the point of stupidity! The concept studies are labeled minimalist designs. A minimalist cruiser-killer design would at most hold 8" HV or SH guns. There is absolutely no point to a much larger ship to hold treasure guns if that was the point.

It's deck armor will hold decently and it's armor is what it's tonnage allows. The option is either 8" or 4" and 8" holds no advantage over a 4" against BB level shells.

You cited 27.5 kts as the speed. This goes at 28.5 kts. You cited a much thicker than normal deck. First, there is no precedent in N-Verse for a very thick deck. Second, the point of 12"-11" guns was never to penetrate a thick deck. It was the HE the crap out of the superstructure so it's effectively soft-killed.

And if you cite 8x15" as the focal point, I point to the 6x15" design.

Also I think you have all forgotten something. Everyone may be building larger and larger dreadnought but the nations that can do so are few and far in between. Are you proposing that such nations, which make up most of N-Verse, build no line of battle at all? It's unfortunate that SeaKreig gives asymmetrical warfare over-performance because most of what it describes happens in such asymmetrical vs line of battle scenarios are biased in favor of the asymmetrical. Therefore what are smaller nations to do? Not build a navy at all?

The option would be to build the smallest ship possible ship housing the largest possible armament (because let's face it, armor alone doesn't deter away captains, although it makes them a tough nut to crack).Well then, there is the minimalist designs. Even away from BP-constrained there is a good deal of advantage gained from having two smaller but less adequate ships over one large super-ship.

In an engagement the side with two ships will have one firing completely undisturbed aiding greatly their firing. In opposition the one ship has great difficulty, even if it sinks one of the two in retargeting the other ship.

A cruiser might not think much of a 30+kt cruiser housing similar weaponry, a battleship might not think much of it too. But a small ship housing BB-level weaponry, that catches attention and enforces the fleet-in-being.

[Logi]

Now that that is all said and done:

Here's the modification according to what I said.

Very heavy firepower, decent speed, light belt (but good vs cruiser fire), and heavy deck. If I had chosen to use 1.5" deck instead, the belt could only go to 8.2" thick. A 3.5" deck is far more useful in that case.

Minimalist Concept Study,  Light Battlecruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
   18,000 t light; 19,003 t standard; 20,509 t normal; 21,714 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   520.00 ft / 520.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   158.50 m / 158.50 m x 28.96 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
     7 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,687.50lbs / 765.44kg shells, 1925 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward
     20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1925 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1925 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 13,090 lbs / 5,937 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   338.00 ft / 103.02 m   17.03 ft / 5.19 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm   0.25" / 6 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 2.28" / 58 mm, Conning tower: 3.60" / 91 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 72,105 shp / 53,791 Kw = 26.50 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,711 tons

Complement:
   856 - 1,113

Cost:
   £7.632 million / $30.530 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,636 tons, 8.0 %
   Armour: 4,464 tons, 21.8 %
      - Belts: 1,274 tons, 6.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,696 tons, 8.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,435 tons, 7.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 58 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,341 tons, 11.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,208 tons, 44.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,509 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22,257 lbs / 10,096 Kg = 13.2 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.538
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.47 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (50 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Stern:      22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.08 ft / 6.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,096 Square feet or 3,168 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 192 lbs/sq ft or 937 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.57
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Deck covers only armored box (338 ft), thus real armor is 3.5" (89mm) over the 338 ft of the protected box.

Main Belt sloped 20 degrees, true vertical height is 16 ft.

Main battery Twin-Triple-Superstructure-Twin : all on deck level, best example for fitting are the Russian battleships

Secondary battery G-R-G-G per side, superimposed.

Misc Weight (350 t):
250t FCS
25t Radar
25t Long Range Wireless
50t Construction Reserve