Logi's Design Studies

[Logi]

The picture of Wang Chung.

There is only one elevator on this boat, that is the fore. The aft is a hole. The elevator function is provided by the nearby cranes. Also the cranes do move crates and what-not that is loaded onto the ship down the "hole" and into the storage areas. Crew can take the stairs down the "hole".

The lighter flag colors indicate it is a mercantile ship.

The location of the funnel on the Dakotan meant that there was not enough length for fore-takeoff if the funnel existed. This meant the funnel was ducted and moved to the side.

For observation, there is a ladder from the superstructure below the flight deck to a small platform extending from the funnel. There is a small console with a horn (for communication with the below crew) and a small telescope.

I didn't want to remove the forward cranes, so they remained. Their load is limited as it can not be readily moved to a storage area. Thus at most used for small things like moving some fuel tanks, food, etc.


Scale: 2 Pixels = 1 Foot

[Logi]

Concept sketch.

Carries 60 aeroplanes in a single hangar, the rest of the weight carried is misc for use as a tender. It holds 12,000 tons of tendering equipment, etc. Carries 4 6"/62 guns on each side to ward off stray small ships and light cruisers. Armored with a 3" belt running from top to underwater sloped 20 degrees.

Not sure about how this goes for costs, probably full price and BP.

HongXing, RRC Aircraft Carrier laid down 1922

Displacement:
    22,250 t light; 22,945 t standard; 31,125 t normal; 37,669 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
    721.80 ft / 721.80 ft x 90.00 ft (Bulges 95.00 ft) x 30.00 ft (normal load)
    220.00 m / 220.00 m x 27.43 m (Bulges 28.96 m)  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1922 Model
      Breech loading guns in deck mounts
      on side, evenly spread
      16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1922 Model
      Machine guns in deck mounts
      on side, evenly spread
    Weight of broadside 865 lbs / 392 kg
    Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:        Width (max)    Length (avg)        Height (avg)
    Main:    3.00" / 76 mm    490.00 ft / 149.35 m    15.34 ft / 4.68 m
    Ends:    Unarmoured
    Upper:    3.00" / 76 mm    490.00 ft / 149.35 m    15.34 ft / 4.68 m
      Main Belt covers 104 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
        2.50" / 64 mm    490.00 ft / 149.35 m    34.00 ft / 10.36 m

   - Conning tower: 2.60" / 66 mm

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,415 shp / 14,483 Kw = 18.00 kts
    Range 20,124nm at 18.00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 14,725 tons

Complement:
    1,171 - 1,523

Cost:
    £2.623 million / $10.492 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 108 tons, 0.3 %
    Armour: 3,500 tons, 11.2 %
       - Belts: 1,903 tons, 6.1 %
       - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,541 tons, 5.0 %
       - Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
       - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
       - Conning Tower: 55 tons, 0.2 %
    Machinery: 659 tons, 2.1 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,733 tons, 24.8 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,875 tons, 28.5 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 10,250 tons, 32.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      68,493 lbs / 31,068 Kg = 634.2 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 14.7 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
    Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
    Roll period: 16.0 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.02
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.67

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has a flush deck
    Block coefficient: 0.530
    Length to Beam Ratio: 7.60 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 27 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
    Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
       - Stem:        21.00 ft / 6.40 m
       - Forecastle (20 %):    21.00 ft / 6.40 m
       - Mid (50 %):        21.00 ft / 6.40 m
       - Quarterdeck (15 %):    21.00 ft / 6.40 m
       - Stern:        21.00 ft / 6.40 m
       - Average freeboard:    21.00 ft / 6.40 m
    Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 59.8 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.9 %
    Waterplane Area: 44,478 Square feet or 4,132 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 195 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 572 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0.99
        - Longitudinal: 1.05
        - Overall: 1.00
    Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
    Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
    Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Laertes]

"Tends to be wet forward" might be messy with that forecastle elevator; you might be shipping a great deal of green water down into the hull. Raised stem, perhaps?

[Logi]

I tend not to trust springsharp's tibits on such items.

For the Wang Chung:
As calculated the bow wave generated from moving 15 kts is roughly 2'.
With the stem freeboard being 15 ft, that means it can safely take the Chinese Seas. The waves in the Chinese Seas go, at most, 3' tall.

For the HongXing:
The bow wave generated from moving 18 kts is roughly 2.83'.
Again with the waves of the Chinese Seas, a 21 ft tall flush deck, it's not going to be wet.

[Laertes]

Incidentally, how does one calculate the size of the bow wave?

[Logi]

I mentioned in my posts in the thread "Design Bureau Guangzhou",

The Bow Wave height at the forward perpendicular is caluclated by:

hs = 0.75 x b x ( l / le ) x Fr^2

Fr = Froude Number or V / sqrt(gL_lwl)
V = speed in meters per second, not knots

l = length overall
l_e = waterline length

b = waterline beam of the ship (in meters)

The calculation comes out as a meters value, I just convert it to imperial for my ease of use.

It is by no means an exact value, but comes as a very good approximation.

[maddox]

I guess with the first overhaul, that the whole front will be enclosed, to create more work and storage space.

[Logi]

Probably will be done, once they test it out and the order manages to get through it's stack of paperwork.

[Ithekro]

Assuming it lasts long enough to get that refit.  Chinese waters seem to be dangerous.

[Logi]

Indeed there is that.

[Logi]

Another concept sketch, it's really an undergunned battleship.

It has a heavy secondary battery to deal with smaller ships, and 6 11" "prize" guns for heavy targets. It's heavy armor allows it some 6500 yds of immunity zone against 15" and 16" shells, but it is all towards the far side. The main purpose is that the ship can skirt at the edge and flirt with the enemy ship if needed as a distraction, maintaining the distance, and with the already large distance for immunity zone, it can quickly retreat as well.

Whilst 11" shells are mostly useless against the enemy ships, around the outer edge of the ship's immunity zone, the 11" heavies can penetrate 3" of deck armor.

Misty Dragon, RRC Commerce Raider laid down 1922

Displacement:
    22,000 t light; 22,777 t standard; 23,696 t normal; 24,432 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
    640.00 ft / 620.00 ft x 88.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
    195.07 m / 188.98 m x 26.82 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      6 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (3x2 guns), 800.00lbs / 362.87kg shells, 1922 Model
      Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
      on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (8x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1922 Model
      Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
      on side, all amidships
    Weight of broadside 6,528 lbs / 2,961 kg
    Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
   - Belts:        Width (max)    Length (avg)        Height (avg)
    Main:    12.2" / 310 mm    405.00 ft / 123.44 m    19.16 ft / 5.84 m
    Ends:    Unarmoured
      Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
        2.50" / 64 mm    405.00 ft / 123.44 m    33.00 ft / 10.06 m

   - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    14.0" / 356 mm    7.00" / 178 mm        11.0" / 279 mm
    2nd:    2.00" / 51 mm    1.00" / 25 mm        1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Direct drive, 4 shafts, 88,173 shp / 65,777 Kw = 28.00 kts
    Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 1,655 tons

Complement:
    954 - 1,241

Cost:
    £4.880 million / $19.521 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 715 tons, 3.0 %
    Armour: 10,152 tons, 42.8 %
       - Belts: 4,079 tons, 17.2 %
       - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,236 tons, 5.2 %
       - Armament: 1,303 tons, 5.5 %
       - Armour Deck: 3,499 tons, 14.8 %
       - Conning Tower: 36 tons, 0.2 %
    Machinery: 2,991 tons, 12.6 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,841 tons, 33.1 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,696 tons, 7.2 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      34,387 lbs / 15,598 Kg = 51.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 6.5 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
    Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
    Roll period: 16.6 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has a flush deck
    Block coefficient: 0.543
    Length to Beam Ratio: 7.05 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 24.90 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35.00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 6.70 ft / 2.04 m
    Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
       - Stem:        19.00 ft / 5.79 m
       - Forecastle (20 %):    18.00 ft / 5.49 m
       - Mid (50 %):        18.00 ft / 5.49 m
       - Quarterdeck (15 %):    18.00 ft / 5.49 m
       - Stern:        18.00 ft / 5.49 m
       - Average freeboard:    18.08 ft / 5.51 m
    Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.0 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135.9 %
    Waterplane Area: 37,824 Square feet or 3,514 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 718 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0.97
        - Longitudinal: 1.33
        - Overall: 1.00
    Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
    Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Laertes]

I like her. She's fast enough to dictate the range at which she fights, which complements her gunnery strategy nicely.

[Sachmle]

It's an overgrown Panzerschiffe. Most of this over growth is due to the armor, which isn't a bad way to improve a Panzerschiffe, but I think more speed and a little less armor would do you better in the end. She can still be caught by those damnable Dutch "Frigates". Kinda reminds me of an overgrown N3 Moltke too. :)

[Logi]

Problem is adding speed for 30 kts is so expensive, the trade off isn't really worth it. The trade-off makes it vulnerable at nearly every range.

[Sachmle]

Main battery is in triple 11" turrets, both forward ala Richelieu. Secondary in twin mounts, 3 each side plus 2 in Xy aft giving a 10 gun broadside of 6" for sinking merchants and anti-CL/DD defense. Got speed up to 30kts by adding some freeboard to keep (actually improved 1.04 vs 1.02) seakeeping and adding 10ft to the length. Belt is only 11" instead of 12.2" but at ranges where you're using the 11" to engage larger units 11" armor is still effective, plus w/ the all-forward arraignment you won't have to show your sides as much. Belts are shorter to save weight, but really a 19'+ deep belt was unnecessary to begin with. 16'+ is more than fine even w/ wave motion. A 4" deck will stop ANY N3 shell in existence/under design at this time. The only reason they got thicker IRL was AP Bombs, not long range shell fire.


Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1922

Displacement:
   22,000 t light; 22,777 t standard; 23,698 t normal; 24,435 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   650.00 ft / 630.00 ft x 88.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   198.12 m / 192.02 m x 26.82 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      6 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (2x3 guns), 800.00lbs / 362.87kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, 1 raised mount - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 6,528 lbs / 2,961 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   413.45 ft / 126.02 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.50" / 64 mm   413.45 ft / 126.02 m   30.00 ft / 9.14 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 115,073 shp / 85,845 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 6,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,658 tons

Complement:
   954 - 1,241

Cost:
   £5.229 million / $20.915 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 715 tons, 3.0 %
   Armour: 8,443 tons, 35.6 %
      - Belts: 3,204 tons, 13.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,147 tons, 4.8 %
      - Armament: 1,235 tons, 5.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,821 tons, 11.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 36 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 3,903 tons, 16.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,638 tons, 36.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,698 tons, 7.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     31,182 lbs / 14,144 Kg = 46.9 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.534
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.16 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.10 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 36.50 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.24 ft / 0.68 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Stern:      21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.24 ft / 6.47 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,128 Square feet or 3,542 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 759 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.65
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent