Logi's Design Studies

[Logi]

On the other side of things, trying out a transport design. This would cost $5 and 5 BP to complete. Might I as how many troops you all believe this ship can hold? They don't all have to be above waterline.

Wenbing, RRC Transport laid down 1950

Displacement:
   20,000 t light; 20,450 t standard; 21,334 t normal; 22,041 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 92.90 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.32 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1950 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1950 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
   Weight of broadside 142 lbs / 64 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   geared drive, 2 shafts, 49,232 shp / 36,727 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,591 tons

Complement:
   882 - 1,147

Cost:
   £6.878 million / $27.513 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 0.1 %
   Armour: 18 tons, 0.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 18 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,178 tons, 5.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,387 tons, 25.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,334 tons, 6.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 13,399 tons, 62.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     24,732 lbs / 11,218 Kg = 700.2 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 18.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.601
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 163.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 37,890 Square feet or 3,520 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 106 lbs/sq ft or 517 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.34
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[TexanCowboy]

I would suggest that you have it operate as a liner in peacetime, as a huge, 20,000 tons ships sitting in reserve, waiting for use is not very constructive for the economy.

[Guinness]

If she's a liner, I'd sim her with a cruising speed of something like 21 knots. She might be quite successful on a route from San Diego or Santa Monica/Long Beach/Los Angeles to Hong Kong or Shanghai. Of course, she'll probably need a lot more fuel to do that, so she might not be economical yet.

[Logi]

Yes I was intending that it would be a liner in peacetime; How's this?

Wenbing, RRC Transport laid down 1919 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   20,000 t light; 20,504 t standard; 24,020 t normal; 26,832 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 92.90 ft x 24.50 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.32 m  x 7.47 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1919 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
   Weight of broadside 142 lbs / 64 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   No fuel, Internal combustion motors,
   No drive to shaft, 2 shafts, 32,211 shp / 24,030 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 21,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6,328 tons

Complement:
   964 - 1,254

Cost:
   £1.560 million / $6.239 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 0.1 %
   Armour: 18 tons, 0.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 18 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,379 tons, 26.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,020 tons, 16.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 13,585 tons, 56.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     47,278 lbs / 21,445 Kg = 1,338.5 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 4.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.663
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 25
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Mid (50 %):      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Stern:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Average freeboard:   29.00 ft / 8.84 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 62.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 229.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 40,119 Square feet or 3,727 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 175 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 537 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.08
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc. Weights (13585t):
25t Long-Range Wireless
60t Reserve Weight
12,000t Troops Transport
1500t Cargo

[Sachmle]

Machinery:
   No fuel, Internal combustion motors,
   No drive to shaft, 2 shafts, 32,211 shp / 24,030 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 21,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6,328 tons

[The Rock Doctor]

It's the DKB seal of approval.

[Logi]

Crap, I realized I had the ship on 1950, so I changed the date and forgot to add back the engines.

Wenbing, RRC Transport laid down 1919 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   20,000 t light; 20,500 t standard; 23,801 t normal; 26,442 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.00 ft / 557.00 ft x 92.90 ft x 25.50 ft (normal load)
   169.77 m / 169.77 m x 28.32 m  x 7.77 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1919 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
   Weight of broadside 142 lbs / 64 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 31,549 shp / 23,536 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 20,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,943 tons

Complement:
   957 - 1,245

Cost:
   £1.919 million / $7.675 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 18 tons, 0.1 %
   Armour: 18 tons, 0.1 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 18 tons, 0.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,175 tons, 4.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,241 tons, 26.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,801 tons, 16.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 12,547 tons, 52.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38,600 lbs / 17,509 Kg = 1,092.8 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 3.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.631
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 25
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Mid (50 %):      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Stern:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Average freeboard:   28.00 ft / 8.53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 217.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 38,964 Square feet or 3,620 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 158 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 538 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.05
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc. Weights (12547t):
25t Long-Range Wireless
72t Reserve Weight
10,500t Troops Transport
1500t Cargo

[TexanCowboy]

Up the cruising speed to 20 knots, that is typical for a liner.

[Logi]

@above: The Liner's range @ 20 kts is 5554nm


A purpose-BB: Unfortunately that means it needs both armor and firepower which increases its weight significantly.

Namping, RRC Battleship laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   42,000 t light; 44,656 t standard; 46,822 t normal; 48,555 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   720.00 ft / 710.00 ft x 115.50 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
   219.46 m / 216.41 m x 35.20 m  x 9.45 m

Armament:
      16 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1,787.50lbs / 810.80kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (8x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 30,565 lbs / 13,864 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.5" / 394 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   10.64 ft / 3.24 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   15.5" / 394 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   9.51 ft / 2.90 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   31.00 ft / 9.45 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   10.0" / 254 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 53,482 shp / 39,898 Kw = 22.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,898 tons

Complement:
   1,590 - 2,068

Cost:
   £10.070 million / $40.279 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,990 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 17,759 tons, 37.9 %
      - Belts: 6,761 tons, 14.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,147 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armament: 3,928 tons, 8.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 5,782 tons, 12.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 140 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,993 tons, 4.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,735 tons, 40.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,822 tons, 10.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 524 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     63,778 lbs / 28,929 Kg = 46.5 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 11.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 7.3 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 18.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.645
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.15 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17.50 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.12 ft / 0.65 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.69 ft / 5.70 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 62,512 Square feet or 5,808 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 234 lbs/sq ft or 1,143 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.28
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Sachmle]

HOLY #*$&!! Not bad, only things I'd recommend is that you cut the upper belt, 15.5" is overkill. Use the weight to add some 3" end belts to keep CLs from causing flooding outside the armored box. As to the deck, IMHO it's overkill for what we've (IC) seen in naval engagements. Nothing at the ranges that you'd need 5" deck armor has happened yet. It could be argued that RRC stresses long range gunnery, and this is why, but I still think it's too much.

I'm not to sure you've got room for all those other guns though.

6x2x6"
8x2x4.1"
4x2x75mm
10x2x0.5"

All are on sides distributed. Is there enough room for that many mounts? FWIW, that's too many 75mm anyway, and what would a 42k BB need 0.5" mgs for anyway? Nothing they can hurt should be allowed to get close enough to use them. IF they're AA...well see my 75mm comment.

[Logi]

The defacto RRC armour scheme is 1.5" splinter plate in front of belt (decapping in reality) and 2" weather deck + 3" main deck.

So you have a 14" MB and 3" MD. Not excessive. I'll reduce the number of secondaries, but I've have to go home for that.

[Walter]

and what would a 42k BB need 0.5" mgs for anyway

Probably the same reason why I use Gattlings on a number of the more recent ship designs...
... but that is wrong! That is not Chinese! That is more Swiss! That is more evil! In the fight against the Swiss, you're supposed to be the Good Guy! :D

[Tanthalas]

The defacto RRC armour scheme is 1.5" splinter plate in front of belt (decapping in reality) and 2" weather deck + 3" main deck.

So you have a 14" MB and 3" MD. Not excessive. I'll reduce the number of secondaries, but I've have to go home for that.

Im still not exactly comfortable with that defence, if it was France or Rohan or even the Dutch with their experiance building and fighting Capital ships I could accept it more easily I supose, but nothing personal her Logi the RRC just dosnt have the experiance building capital ships to realise the need for it (Honestly I dont think anyone in the Nverse has the experiance to realise the need)

[Logi]

Its not like the RRC knows it works as a decapping plate, its just a misguided attempt at something different and ended up as good, like the SoDak and Iowa. Before I knew about decapping plates I had in mind a plate in front of the MB to prematurely detonate the enemy shell so...

And weather deck's just a weather deck :D

[Tanthalas]

Its not like the RRC knows it works as a decapping plate, its just a misguided attempt at something different and ended up as good, like the SoDak and Iowa. Before I knew about decapping plates I had in mind a plate in front of the MB to prematurely detonate the enemy shell so...

And weather deck's just a weather deck :D

I give up, trying to explain anything to you isnt worth my time as you wont listen to logic or atempt to think like your in 1917.   my entire point is there is no Logical Reason for any of us to be making the jumps people are making.  Your not the only one doing it and to me trying to stay within the storyline of the Nverse its very frustrating.