Logi's Design Studies

[Borys]

Impressive speed for a coal-burner!
A not unreasonable AC ...
Borys

[Sachmle]

China has LOTS of people, if the black gang pops off they'll just find more.  :D

[Logi]

It'll have to do until China establishes a stable oil route

[Tanthalas]

It'll have to do until China establishes a stable oil route

well first they will have to find someone willing to sell them oil... (not as easy as it sounds belive me)

[Logi]

Ah, you point out one of my main problems  ;)

Guangdong, RRC Province Class laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   18,344 t light; 19,258 t standard; 21,327 t normal; 22,982 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   728.28 ft / 721.00 ft x 80.10 ft x 23.50 ft (normal load)
   221.98 m / 219.76 m x 24.41 m  x 7.16 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (6x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 8,670 lbs / 3,933 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   425.00 ft / 129.54 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   276.00 ft / 84.12 m   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
     20.00 ft / 6.10 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 76,791 shp / 57,286 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,724 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   882 - 1,147

Cost:
   £2.937 million / $11.748 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,084 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 4,541 tons, 21.3 %
      - Belts: 2,392 tons, 11.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 575 tons, 2.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,491 tons, 7.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 83 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 3,335 tons, 15.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,084 tons, 42.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,983 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,941 lbs / 12,220 Kg = 19.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 14.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.85 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 174.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 40,305 Square feet or 3,744 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 766 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.09
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Aye.... forgot to check the shp limit again...

[Sachmle]

Why such long legs? Where is China planing to go?

[Logi]

Ummmm.... secret  ;)

besides; It doesn't have THAT long of legs, it can only go 1059nm at 28 kts

[Sachmle]

I've sailed half my fleet to the Philipines and back, and another group to France and I only have 7500nm @ 12kts...You have more than that and haven't left the S China Sea for 10yrs.

[Borys]

How much does that 8000@12 become if the ship is chasing enemy cruisers, running around the South China Sea at 24+ knots?

Maybe high speed raids against the Pilpinas? Singapore? Riuku Islands? Yellow Sea?

NOTE: While I was typing this post Logi posted his reply.
Borys

[Logi]

To answer your question, at 24 kts, the range become 1619nm. Not a whole lot... Usually, such long legs would be used to escort important convoys or perform high-speed raids.

NOTE: China one has one collier. (meaning it can't refuel as often)

[Sachmle]

So perhaps you legs aren't that long, mine are just short...hmmm.

[Logi]

Something to thing about indeed.

[P3D]

I think Persia would be willing to sell oil to RRC.
And cut ship length to fit drydock.

Wasn't China using 13" guns btw?

[Sachmle]

I think Persia would be willing to sell oil to RRC.
And cut ship length to fit drydock.

Wasn't China using 13" guns btw?

Good to see someone is on the ball today...you're probably right on the 1st one, and right on 2 and 3

[Logi]

Guangdong, RRC Province Class laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   18,120 t light; 19,030 t standard; 21,079 t normal; 22,718 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 713.72 ft x 79.30 ft x 23.70 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 217.54 m x 24.17 m  x 7.22 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (6x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 8,670 lbs / 3,933 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   424.00 ft / 129.24 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   277.00 ft / 84.43 m   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
     12.72 ft / 3.88 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 76,415 shp / 57,005 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,688 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   874 - 1,137

Cost:
   £2.922 million / $11.689 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,084 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 4,505 tons, 21.4 %
      - Belts: 2,386 tons, 11.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 575 tons, 2.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,461 tons, 6.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 82 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 3,318 tons, 15.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,914 tons, 42.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,958 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,095 lbs / 11,837 Kg = 19.0 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.72 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 39,499 Square feet or 3,670 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 156 lbs/sq ft or 762 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.11
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Ship now fits in drydocks


Did China not have any 14" guns? If not....

Guangdong, RRC Province Class laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   17,138 t light; 17,933 t standard; 19,922 t normal; 21,514 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 713.72 ft x 79.30 ft x 22.40 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 217.54 m x 24.17 m  x 6.83 m

Armament:
      6 - 13.00" / 330 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,098.50lbs / 498.27kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (6x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (2x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 7,029 lbs / 3,188 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   7.00" / 178 mm   406.00 ft / 123.75 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   295.00 ft / 89.92 m   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
     12.72 ft / 3.88 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm     0.00 ft / 0.00 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 88 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      5.00" / 127 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 74,022 shp / 55,221 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,581 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   837 - 1,089

Cost:
   £2.601 million / $10.402 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 879 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 4,425 tons, 22.2 %
      - Belts: 2,356 tons, 11.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 528 tons, 2.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,461 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 79 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 3,214 tons, 16.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,320 tons, 41.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,785 tons, 14.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,950 lbs / 12,224 Kg = 24.5 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.29

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.72 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      20.00 ft / 6.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.00 ft / 6.10 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 179.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 39,499 Square feet or 3,670 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 720 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.04
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily