Logi's Design Studies

[Logi]

Picture will come later, just because you specially requested it :D

Changes:
- reduced bunkerage
- decreased upper belt thickness
- reduced main battery armour
- reduced speed
+ increased number and caliber of secondary battery
+ increased Block Coefficent
+ added TDS

North Wind, RRC Battlecruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   25,416 t light; 26,736 t standard; 28,611 t normal; 30,111 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   788.00 ft / 765.00 ft x 85.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   240.18 m / 233.17 m x 25.91 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      9 - 13.00" / 330 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,320.00lbs / 598.74kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 13,220 lbs / 5,996 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
     65.00 ft / 19.81 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.00" / 25 mm   700.00 ft / 213.36 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   24.00 ft / 7.32 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      9.00" / 229 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 80,000 shp / 59,680 Kw = 27.15 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 20.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,375 tons

Complement:
   1,099 - 1,429

Cost:
   £4.519 million / $18.077 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,403 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 9,174 tons, 32.1 %
      - Belts: 4,259 tons, 14.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 666 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 1,650 tons, 5.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,519 tons, 8.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 81 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,981 tons, 10.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,458 tons, 40.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,195 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     37,571 lbs / 17,042 Kg = 34.2 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 5.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.83
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 39.40 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m (20.00 ft / 6.10 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.81 ft / 5.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 45,380 Square feet or 4,216 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 856 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[maddox]

85 feet beam is narrow for a TDS.

[P3D]

The first dreadnought had TDS with less than 85' beam. Although not with triple 13" turrets. Increase it to 90' and Maddox should not find any problem with it.  ;)

[mentat]

On the TDS - I'm not expert on SS but since it only asks for the Torp Blkhd to be specified not the TDS space - it seems to give a benefit from the Bulkhead regardless of whether the space is there or not - hence calls from mod of needing 90' beam - I still think it is a good deal and will reduce length-beam ratio to 8.5 which is more true historically - similar to Renown/Repulse?

Capability wise she looks like a good all-rounder to me - a good baseline design - but given it is a design study there are alternatives to explore:

A - Optimised for the Battle Line:

6 x 13" (3 x 2)  + will help make space for a TDS
16 x 4.7" (sufficient vs TBDs)

Inc. armour - only need +1.5" on belt + turrets, maybe 1" on barbettes to reach respectable BB standard

Hopefully can still make 26.5-27 knots

- a smallish but capable Fast BB - can Scout ahead and head the line as well - doubling up on the enemy flagship


B - Optimised vs ACs or less and can handle multiple Mdm Targets:

9/8 x 11" (again helps with TDS on the narrow beam)

10 x 6.7"  (2 x 2 on each side, 1 x 2 in X superfiring) - very effective vs. smaller cruisers

  12 x 4.7" or 4" for closer up

  Belt + Turret armour reduced by 2"?

  Aim for 27.5/28 knots

A bigger version of the nverse Scharnhorst/Gneisenau - think they were very neat but getting old now


Which raises the key Qns - what's she for and what does the potential opposition look like?

[Logi]

This ship is an all-round worker. Although it might mostly be tracking down ACs it can also handle BBs and BCs if it comes to it. Well in the Pacific there's really not alot of BBs although they are plenty of BCs and ACs. The BCs whom this ship might face are usually more lightly armed and just a tad slower. The ACs and CLs it might face are just slightly faster (or alot slower). The best bonus is that this ship carries heavier armaments than any other nation in the East Pacific. (Well maybe not the European nations and their colonies)

Changes:
+ increased beam
+ increased speed
+ increased bunkerage
+ increased freeboard
- reduced block coefficient

North Wind, RRC Battlecruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   26,388 t light; 27,730 t standard; 29,743 t normal; 31,353 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   788.00 ft / 765.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   240.18 m / 233.17 m x 27.43 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      9 - 13.00" / 330 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,320.00lbs / 598.74kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 13,220 lbs / 5,996 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
     65.00 ft / 19.81 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.00" / 25 mm   700.00 ft / 213.36 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   24.00 ft / 7.32 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      9.00" / 229 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 89,500 shp / 66,767 Kw = 27.77 kts
   Range 3,152nm at 20.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,623 tons

Complement:
   1,132 - 1,472

Cost:
   £4.671 million / $18.685 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,403 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 9,344 tons, 31.4 %
      - Belts: 4,278 tons, 14.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 666 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 1,675 tons, 5.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,642 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 83 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,335 tons, 11.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,906 tons, 40.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,356 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38,342 lbs / 17,392 Kg = 34.9 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 5.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 39.40 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m (20.00 ft / 6.10 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.08 ft / 5.81 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 47,602 Square feet or 4,422 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 177 lbs/sq ft or 866 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.02
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Will try out the alternatives.

[Logi]

Variant A
vs BB

North Wind, RRC Battlecruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   24,624 t light; 25,674 t standard; 27,675 t normal; 29,275 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   788.00 ft / 765.00 ft x 85.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   240.18 m / 233.17 m x 25.91 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      6 - 13.00" / 330 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,320.00lbs / 598.74kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (8x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 8,764 lbs / 3,975 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
     65.00 ft / 19.81 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.00" / 25 mm   700.00 ft / 213.36 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   24.00 ft / 7.32 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 4.00" / 102 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 100,128 shp / 74,695 Kw = 29.00 kts
   Range 3,300nm at 20.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,601 tons

Complement:
   1,072 - 1,394

Cost:
   £3.936 million / $15.744 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 929 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 9,485 tons, 34.3 %
      - Belts: 4,886 tons, 17.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 888 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armament: 1,156 tons, 4.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,477 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 79 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 3,731 tons, 13.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,079 tons, 36.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,051 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38,303 lbs / 17,374 Kg = 34.9 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 5.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 15.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.532
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 39.40 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m (20.00 ft / 6.10 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.08 ft / 5.81 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 144.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,623 Square feet or 4,146 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 156 lbs/sq ft or 761 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Variant B
vs Cruisers

North Wind, RRC Battlecruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   24,643 t light; 25,670 t standard; 28,091 t normal; 30,027 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   790.00 ft / 765.00 ft x 85.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   240.79 m / 233.17 m x 25.91 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (4x2 guns), 800.00lbs / 362.87kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 8,062 lbs / 3,657 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   510.00 ft / 155.45 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
     65.00 ft / 19.81 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   2.00" / 51 mm   700.00 ft / 213.36 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   510.00 ft / 155.45 m   24.00 ft / 7.32 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 120,000 shp / 89,520 Kw = 30.29 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 20.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,357 tons

Complement:
   1,084 - 1,410

Cost:
   £4.040 million / $16.160 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 873 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 8,587 tons, 30.6 %
      - Belts: 3,907 tons, 13.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 679 tons, 2.4 %
      - Armament: 1,367 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,495 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 139 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 4,471 tons, 15.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,312 tons, 36.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,448 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     34,672 lbs / 15,727 Kg = 52.1 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 38.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.00 ft / 9.75 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m (20.00 ft / 6.10 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.94 ft / 6.08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 44,957 Square feet or 4,177 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 767 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.03
      - Longitudinal: 0.98
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Variant C
Increased Size of Variant B for Increased weapon - vs. BB

North Wind, RRC Battlecruiser laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   27,757 t light; 29,251 t standard; 31,868 t normal; 33,961 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   790.00 ft / 765.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   240.79 m / 233.17 m x 27.43 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,650.00lbs / 748.43kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      16 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (8x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 15,073 lbs / 6,837 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   450.00 ft / 137.16 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
     65.00 ft / 19.81 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.00" / 25 mm   700.00 ft / 213.36 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
     Main Belt covers 90 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   450.00 ft / 137.16 m   25.00 ft / 7.62 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 78,000 shp / 58,188 Kw = 26.50 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 20.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,710 tons

Complement:
   1,192 - 1,550

Cost:
   £4.959 million / $19.837 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,606 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 10,088 tons, 31.7 %
      - Belts: 4,476 tons, 14.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 624 tons, 2.0 %
      - Armament: 2,172 tons, 6.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,642 tons, 8.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 173 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,906 tons, 9.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,577 tons, 39.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,111 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 580 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     41,992 lbs / 19,047 Kg = 30.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.83
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise aft of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 27.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 38.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32.00 ft / 9.75 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.00 ft / 4.57 m (20.00 ft / 6.10 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.67 ft / 5.99 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 47,602 Square feet or 4,422 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 894 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.07
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Carthaginian]

Variant C...
Stop right THERE, cause I think you have a winner!

[mentat]

Hi RAM - great work and fascinating comparison:

Trying to summarise, you can choose:

A and B - 8000lb broadside configured vs BBs or ACs/less - at 29-30 knots for GBP4m (but need to check TDS is OK on 85' beam given the reduced main armament)

(also option B - pity there is no current 170mm option but I understand is no longer available)

OR

  C - 15000lb broadside !! (impressive for her size) - with 26.5 knots for GBP4.9m (but maybe some NEDS issues on this one - could drop maybe 2 tertiary turrets to sort it)

OR

Original - 13000lb broadside - at almost 28 knots for GBP4.6m

[mentat]

Sorry Logi - got mixed up on my threads (ms is busy downloading more unnecessary **** into my laptop - screwing it and me up!!)

   Cheers

[mentat]

Had a chance for a longer look.

Option C does look very attractive in terms of firepower - and actually has similar characteristics to the Mackensen - prob. best WW1 BC design of all

I think it might be a tight squeeze to fit everything in - but there is the possibility of going back to the 16 x 5.5s - with 8 x 14s - that's formidable

Is C your best fit to requirements?

A few remaining thoughts on improving the others, since their higher speeds will be very useful in a 20+ year lifetime:

Option A - seems cutting back to 3 twin 13s was overdoing it, she lacks punch - 8 x 13s in a 233 arrangement might fit in the narrow beam with the TDS - but looks a bit unconventional

Option B (the Cruiser Killer) - with no 170mm available, a modern 190 mm may be possible and increases the broadside (I notice your 11" is quite big at 800lb - so there is still a ratio of 4:1 in Shell Wt) Also easier to fit in everything if the the 8 x 11" are just 3 turrets - 323

I think this one makes a great Flagship for Light Forces or World Cruises!! - depends if you like showing off or not ...

But no need to Sim if they're not relevant for you :).

[Logi]

Hmmm C, I kinda but threw that design out for fun (I was thinking of Bismarck at the time though) But the positive response to the ship is encouraging. I *might* acutally build that shp sometime later (of course with proper adjustments.

About siming the others ships, I would always do so, its better to see how it works out. Unfortunately, I don't have time today.

[mentat]

Mackensen and Bismarck is an interesting theme - to some extent Bismarck is the expanded WW2 equivalent of Mackensen

Also - Hood was built in reponse to Mackensen - and Bismarck partly built with Hood in mind

[The Rock Doctor]

You know, I kinda liked Option B best for RRC.  I'd like her even better with additional 120mm in place of the 150mm, since the additional lighter guns would be good for tackling swarms of Middle Kingdom torpedo-boats.

[Logi]

Sorry for the delay

Pic of the original design (design with TDS)


The line on the top and side view is a measure for 1000 ft

[mentat]

The pics are neat - esp the sloping flush deck - gives very fast and elegant look - very BC!

The Superstructure is unusual - any particular reason for the large raised section on the big tripod (?) structure. Does look rather top heavy - Jean Bart had something looked a bit like that but was a lot smaller.

How about integrating the 'tripod' and 'topbox' into the rear of the fwd superstructure - giving mutual support

Also - would give more space for funnels - looks like current funnels - very close together would involve a lot of trunking / all boilers together - bad for damage control.

Any further thoughts on the different Options?