Iberian News 1914 - Onwards

[Korpen]

It can be argued both ways, and if not a major theoretical difference, there is a major practical and legal difference when people start to be transferred along with the territory (as when it is a city of thousands that change hands rather then a small plot in the city).

But It is really down to what sort of message Burma want the send: If they for some reason want to take an antagonistic stance vs. the RRC they would go ahead, If they want to take advantage of the opportunities and perks the treaty with the RRC gives they should at least discuss the thing with the RRC before committing to anything.

[miketr]

Feel free to argue, feel free to restart the war with my navy in the WestPac, feel free to work out a deal once the treaty is published, etc you have options.  I am not claiming this is a nice move, only that its in my nations interests.

At any rate you agreed to the treaty you can either stick by it or not.  If you are going to use Korpen's view point you are arguing in effect that RRC has veto over the foreign policy of Burma.  I obviously don't support that view point.   

[Korpen]

Feel free to argue, feel free to restart the war with my navy in the WestPac, feel free to work out a deal once the treaty is published, etc you have options.  I am not claiming this is a nice move, only that its in my nations interests.

How Iberia acts is not something that I will comment on, it is a PC country after all.
Burma however is a NPC, and that changes things a bit, as a NPC country should act for own best intrest, not as a proxy for someone else.

At any rate you agreed to the treaty you can either stick by it or not.  If you are going to use Korpen's view point you are arguing in effect that RRC has veto over the foreign policy of Burma.  I obviously don't support that view point.   

Given how the arguments went during the talks, I must admit the Burmese leasing away territory feels a bit disingenuous.
But I am not saying that the RRC should have a veto on the actions of Burma, I am saying that given the way the talks went and that there is risk of being accused of breaking treaty; Burma should simply talk to the RRC about it. I see no reason why they could quickly reach a mutually satisfying agreement on how to interpret the relevant clauses in this and similar situations.

[miketr]

Feel free to argue, feel free to restart the war with my navy in the WestPac, feel free to work out a deal once the treaty is published, etc you have options.  I am not claiming this is a nice move, only that its in my nations interests.

How Iberia acts is not something that I will comment on, it is a PC country after all.
Burma however is a NPC, and that changes things a bit, as a NPC country should act for own best intrest, not as a proxy for someone else.

This is in their interests; that treaty has opened doors for the RRC to come back down the road and restart the war; from the demands pre talks thats national extinction from the Burmese elites point of view. Burma needs a protector vs. RRC or needs to accept they are going to become its pawns sooner or later.  There is no middle ground.  If RRC takes the point of view that it has veto over Burma's foreign police I (as Burma) would fight and fight now with Iberian help and its allies in the area.  Logi if he long term wanted anything other from Burma but a relationship of fear he badly over played his hand. 

At any rate you agreed to the treaty you can either stick by it or not.  If you are going to use Korpen's view point you are arguing in effect that RRC has veto over the foreign policy of Burma.  I obviously don't support that view point.   

Given how the arguments went during the talks, I must admit the Burmese leasing away territory feels a bit disingenuous.
But I am not saying that the RRC should have a veto on the actions of Burma, I am saying that given the way the talks went and that there is risk of being accused of breaking treaty; Burma should simply talk to the RRC about it. I see no reason why they could quickly reach a mutually satisfying agreement on how to interpret the relevant clauses in this and similar situations.

This deal is old news and I have been sitting on it since you traded emails about the talks some time ago.  I talked with Guinness and the topic of RRC reacting badly to it was gone over.  I offered a great deal and was willing to offer more to bring it off. 

And no I strongly think you are in error Korpen if a nation has to talk to another nation about its political deals it is in effect giving that other nation veto over its actions.

[Guinness]

I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire here, as for one thing I rue the day I had to start thinking about Burmese foreign policy (joking here, but only just), but some facts:

1. Iberia, thought admittedly acting out of their own self interest, was steadfast in it's support of Burma during the Sino-Burmese war. The idea that Iberia might then come asking Burma for a little something in return certainly isn't surprising, and also doesn't to me seem unreasonable.

2. Iberia is offering to do something here that Burma can't afford any time soon to do for itself, namely vastly improve the port at Sittwe and connect it by rail to the capital in Mandalay.

3. Even today OTL, Sittwe is a significant, but not gigantic place, with a population of 187,000. It's not as if the Burmese are considering leasing away Rangoon.

4. So far as yet, the length of the lease hasn't been discussed. I wouldn't expect it to be nearly as long as some of the other cantonments in the region, and certainly not forever.

5. Once the Iberian constructed railway to Mandalay is complete, and the railway from Kunming to Mandalay is complete, the RRC will have a virtual highway into Burma should they choose to return. This is a fact understood by the Burmese, but their point of view on it is that it will also make Burma a major economic crossroads, especially for Chinese goods, and therefore a less attractive target much more able to defend itself in the future.

6. I don't think one news posting is indicative that the Burmese have or have not decided to discuss this idea with the Republican Chinese, but certainly Mike is right that the Chinese have not earned themselves the right to dictate Burma's foreign policy.

If you'd like, put yourself in Burma's shoes for a moment. They've just been invaded by the Chinese, and only Iberia's involvement prevented what would have been a long and costly campaign even in the best case scenario. Almost immediately after that conflict was concluded at Batavia, the Dutch, who sponsored and mediated the peace at Batavia, have invaded Siam. The Burmese have got to be concerned about the possibility, however remote, that the RRC and the Dutch might be conspiring to divide southeast asia, including Burma between them. So they may be getting a little paranoid. Fortunately for them now, they've got a powerful friend in Iberia. I'm not sure they care that the Dutch and the Iberians have been enemies in the past.

If there is a concern that the NPCs in the region haven't been acting in their best interest, then by all means voice it (though a PM to the mods might be a better avenue). I can assure all though that any prospective deal in this case isn't all Mike's doing, and that the Burmese are and will continue to be negotiating in efforts to secure for themselves the best security situation they can.

[miketr]

The draft treaty we kicked around had... 

The Kingdom of Burma grants a concession to Imperio Iberico for the port of Sittwe and area.  Concession is to be for a term of Twenty Five years.

[The Rock Doctor]

I would take the view that Burma is not prohibited from ceding territory in this way - however, I'd also take the view that consultation with RRC is not a bad idea, either.  As we bureaucrats like to say, "Consultation is not a veto."

[Logi]

Exactly, I might not say no to the idea, just informing the other is very useful. As of now, it feels as though Burma and Iberia has gone behind my back with this deal. And deals that can't be shown to an involved party are rarely good.

1. Iberia, thought admittedly acting out of their own self interest, was steadfast in it's support of Burma during the Sino-Burmese war. The idea that Iberia might then come asking Burma for a little something in return certainly isn't surprising, and also doesn't to me seem unreasonable.

Steadfast? The conflict lasted last than a month. You can't really determine if Iberia was steadfast in such a short period of time. There was rarely any fighting to begin with!

6. I don't think one news posting is indicative that the Burmese have or have not decided to discuss this idea with the Republican Chinese, but certainly Mike is right that the Chinese have not earned themselves the right to dictate Burma's foreign policy.

I never wanted to dictate Burma's foreign policy just consult with me. Work with me, don't go behind my back!

If you'd like, put yourself in Burma's shoes for a moment. They've just been invaded by the Chinese, and only Iberia's involvement prevented what would have been a long and costly campaign even in the best case scenario. Almost immediately after that conflict was concluded at Batavia, the Dutch, who sponsored and mediated the peace at Batavia, have invaded Siam. The Burmese have got to be concerned about the possibility, however remote, that the RRC and the Dutch might be conspiring to divide southeast asia, including Burma between them. So they may be getting a little paranoid. Fortunately for them now, they've got a powerful friend in Iberia. I'm not sure they care that the Dutch and the Iberians have been enemies in the past.

Not really... If I were in Burma's shoes, instead of provoking a recent war enemy, I would do as you did, but also try to avoid provoking the Chinese further. That is talk to them. In the treaty it labels one of the points are to improve the relationships. Use this to your advantage! Try to put aside the differences. Still, I wouldn't trust completely and always be prepared for war. Besides, and here's the big whoopee, if the Dutch and Chinese were planning on splitting south-est Asia. Then Burma is doomed either ways. With ample transports (the Dutch have many in the region), the RRC could land masses of troops on Burmese land and cross over the borders before the first real Iberia warships pass the Suez Canal. Let's not forget the Philippines are in range of the Chinese defensive fleet.

I would, in Burmese shoes, seek an ally that was maybe a little closer to the area, such that they can act instantly to protect Burma.

[miketr]

Logi part of your stated war objectives at one point was the total annexation of the country and the destruction of its political leadership.  Its a little late to go in effect, "why don't they want to be my friends and why are they doing things behind my back?!?"

Iberia helped Burma, offered to help them more (full details not in the open) and Iberia asked for something in return.  Chucking away the Iberian request or shooting it down might not have been the best move for Burma to do if the RRC turns hostile.  At that point Burma has to either find another nation to help them or do whatever the RRC wants whenever the RRC asks for anything.  So they accepted upsetting the RRC to keep Iberia happy and involved.  It provides ties between Burma and Iberia; making it very costly for Iberia to just leave Burma to its fate in a future conflict.

I agree that Burma could have at least floated the idea off of the RRC but what does Burma do if the RRC makes a big stink out of it?  Do they then go back to Iberia and say sorry deal is off; does Iberia then flush the rest of the treaty and its promised aid and perhaps the oil investment money?  The sure bet to assure Iberian linkage is to plow forward and accept the riskes. 

[Logi]

I know I'm not saying Burma needs to listen to the RRC at all. I'm saying doing this behind someone's behind just provokes them. They DON'T need to be my friends. There's a difference between being friendly and not trying to provoke the opposition into a premature attack.

What I am saying is that Burma should talk to me about, but totally ignore my opinion.

[miketr]

Madrid
Fall 1916

Minister of Defense, Manuel Gutiérrez y Mellado (General de Ejército Ret.)
Head of the Army, General de Ejército Julio Macías y Santander
Head of the Navy, Almirante Antonio Bermejo

Julio, "The Emperor wants war with the Dutch."

Bermejo nodded and then added, "He has asked to see any reports of Iberian shipping being bothered on the 'High Seas' by the Dutch Navy."

The retired General ran his finges through his white close cut hair, a hair style he had since he was a cadet over 50 years ago.  "The Government doesn't want a war and several of our allies have made clear they aren't interested in fighting the Dutch half way around the world."

Julio, "I have had some letters with some of my opposite numbers amoung our friends and none of them want to risk a land war in Europe or fighting in the Atlantic.  Its going to be years till we can complete the redeployment of the armies away from Brazil towards Europe and the Philippines.  In the mean time we lack numbers in either area to do anything other than defensive operations.  Admiral what do we have left here if the ballon does go up with the Dutch?"

The Iberian fleet commander shook his head as he answered, "Next to nothing the Med Fleet which is the core of our navy has been moved to the Philippines.  The Dutch have many of their heavy units in the Atlantic as we saw with that move in the South Atlantic to pick off the Brandenburg island.  If a war breaks out with the Dutch we would almost be totally dependent on our allies to maintain our lines of communication between Europe and Brazil.  In South East Asia our combat power would help the Brandenburgers but we need more subs, more Destroyers and better ASW trainning."

The Defense Minister nodded, "So its safe to say that from a military point of view we are not ready for a war with the Dutch."

Both heads of the uniformed services nodded at once.  The old general then stood up and the other two did the same, "Very well I will explain the facts of life to the Emperor and if he pushes things I will resign."

 

[miketr]

Manila Bay, Philippines
Late December 1916

Sitting in the protected bay was the core of the Iberian Navy, two modern Battleships, five older but updated battleships, four armored cruisers, six protected cruisers and thirty torpedo boats.  The order had come down that the ships would not be returning any time soon to Europe and neither would their current war level status be changed.  As a matter of fact orders were given for any maintenance scheduled within the next two months to be done now. 

[miketr]

December 23rd, 1916
Philippines

By the order of the Governor General in the name of his Most Catholic Majesty Jaime I, Emperor of Iberia, general mobilization in the territory of the Philippines is to continue for an additional two months.

December 27th, 1916
Madrid

El Mundo Headline - "PSOI Deputies Demand return to peace time levels for military."
El País Headline - "Possible Tax Increases for  1917 in offering."
ABC Headline - "Philippines threatened by continued fighting in Far East."

[miketr]

Madrid
March 14th, 1917

Prime Minister of Iberia, Don Felipe González y Márquez
Leader of Partido dos Trabalhadores e dos Camponeses (PTC), Ricardo "Chefe" Berzoini

"So Mr. Berzoini what can I do for you today?  I hope you aren't going to ask about working hour reforms; there is just no way to fit it into the schedule before the summer." Don Felipe asked.

A crooked smile went across Berzoni's face, "We both know that you could fit it on the schedule... BUT I am not here today about that."

Don Felipe sighed, "Mr. Berzoini as one gets up in age, the more one appreciates direct answers... even in Politics.  Would it be possible to get to the point?"

The smile on Berzoni broke out into a full grin, "Of course Excellency.  This should explain my visit." 

The Socialist leader handed over to Don Felipe a folder.  As soon as Don Felipe opened it he his face went slack at the top sheet. "Operation Shantou" Where did you get this Mr. Berzoini?

"Another copy came in the mail a few days ago and by your reaction I know it's real or close enough.  Before you ask I have no idea who sent it.  Perhaps someone on the General Staff is responsible."  Ricardo Berzoini said a smug voice.

A grim expression settled over Don Felipe's face, "I can't say if it's real or not, the Official Secrets act applies to this office.  A law someone broke to send that to you if it's a real document.  So what do you want Berzoini?"

Berzoini smiled thinly before he replied, "What I WANT in the long term is your job, what I want today was to tell you I had that."  Berzoini paused to tap the folder before continuing, "And to tell you that we are putting that document on the questions list for the next session. You have to admit that having the Navy sweep the Republican Chinese coast to look for their navy so it could be sunk and to shell Hong Kong is an act of war.  And the last time I checked only the Cortes Generales can declare war.  I expect that all members of the opposition and some of your own collation will be interested in that document."

The Prime Minister looked on in horror, "Berzoini you are playing with fire the 3rd Pacific War just ended do you want to start a fourth war?"

Berzoini shrugged, "I want the Emperor to know we aren't slaves and his authority has limits, legal limits and one of those is that the Cortes Generales makes war and peace.  He has authority over the military but is required to seek the Cortes Generales approval before he starts a war.  This is all too much like the Balkan War just far more blatant; as I said the Emperor needs a reminder."

Palace a few hours later
Emperor, HIRH Jamie
Prime Minister of Iberia, Don Felipe González y Márquez
Foreign Minister, Diogo Freitas do Amaral

"So I need a reminder do I?  How about we give the 'chief' his own reminder?  Why don't we remind him what 'treason' and 'espionage' mean?"   The emperor said in a flat tone.

Do Amaral shook his head in disbelief, "I knew the man was ruthless as all hell.  You wouldn't believe some of the rumors about him out of Brazil, political killings and extortion.  Things just started to calm down in that part of the world.  I am to start working with Burma so we can get the oil and port projects started this fall.  This could wreck everything."

"Majesty as much as I would like to lock him up, Madrid isn't Lisbon and we can't just dump socialists into work camps whenever they become inconvenient."  The Prime Minister said in a voice that was thin and raspy. 

The emperor nodded, "You are right of course, would be a bad example I guess if we locked him up after I went through all the trouble of getting the blue coats in Portugal to follow at least the letter of the law.  Still I don't like military secrets being passed out let alone used for political advantage.  We have a leak and I want it found and whoever the leak is tried and then SHOT."

The prime ministers nodded, "I will let Gutiérrez know you want this looked into.  Still that leaves Berzoini to deal with and I think I have a possible solution...  I resign."

The Foreign Minister looked surprised for a moment and then nodded.  Emperor Jamie shook his head, "No Don Felipe I won't have your career end like this and I need you."

Don Felipe gave a tired grin, "No Majesty I am no longer a young man.  I am in fact a very old one.  I am going to have to step down sooner rather than latter.  Might as well be now and I can accept the blame for the incident, protecting the government."

Sadness came over emperor and knew it was the way to move forward but the stubborn part of him wouldn't admit it, "I don't want Berzoini to have the satisfaction of driving you from office.  Is there something else we might do?"

With a problem before him some of the fatigue melted away from the Prime Minister, "Oh I can think of a number of solutions that wouldn't involve me stepping down.  All have problems or at least risks though.  I am very sure that my solution will work as no one really cares if we insult the Reformist Chinese.  Ever since the battle for Taiwan many in the know have had reservations about the Chinese in general; especially in the Philippines and since the break up the Reformists have been causing problems everywhere.  The solution with a chance of an actual political pay off is to acknowledge we planned to destroy the RRC Navy and we will not be threatened by them.  A very good chance it would cost the socialists.  The problem is my health isn't up for a bruising political campaign and I could be wrong and no telling how that part of the world reacts.  The safe choice is to try to bury this quietly in a secret meeting of the Cortes Generales."

The Emperor gave a nod at last, "Very well Don Felipe, I will always remember your service and sacrifice for the Empire."
       
To be continued...

[miketr]

Spring 1919

H.I.I.M.S. Gibraltar, Indian Ocean, 700nm West of Aden and 300nm South of Oman Coast Steaming east, speed 12 knots

"Faint distress signal Captain, 'Being attacked by Pirates, Ten miles north of Socotra' the message is being repeated."

Capitán de Fragata Antonio Calderón walked over to the navigation table, "Lieutenant Blanco how soon can we get there?"

The Lieutenant looked over the map chart and measured the distance, "Call it 135 nautical miles to the east coast of Socotra, so four and half hours at flank.  Fuel bunkers are at 230 tons Captain."

Capitán Calderón nodded, "XO inform the chief engineer we are going to flank and pass the word to crew that we will be going to battle stations in three hours."  The captain went to the radio room, "Sparks see if you can get them to give an ID and let them know we are responding."

Five hours later

Bridge of Gibraltar

"Any thing from Kobayashi Maru XO?" The captain asked his second in command.

"No Sir nothing since after they identified themselves and confirmed their location." Capitán de Corbeta Portillo responded.

Capitán Calderón sighed, "Very well reduce speed to fifteen knots and we will sweep the area keep the crew at General Quarters."

A few hours later off the town of Had?b?, largest settlement on Socotra

"Well that was simple XO.  Its clearly a freighter but we are too far out to make out any names but I don't see why such a large ship would put into such a marginal port." Capitán Calderón
Portillo nodded and frowned, "We're loosing the light sir."

Capitán Calderón sighed, "We will come back tomorrow at dawn.  See if we can raise San Salvador da Chagos and ask them for instructions.  In the mean take the crew off general quarters but keep the crew at alert status.  Have the off duty officers join me for dinner."

Half an hour later in the Officers Mess

"We haven't gotten a response from San Salvador we are just too far away so we are going to have to deal with this ourselves.  Standing orders require us to respond to any distress signal and destroy any pirates we encounter.  So we are going to get that ship free and stomp out whatever nest of Pirates is operating here." Capitán Calderón informed his officers.

One of the junior officers glanced at his fellows and then spook up, "I understand sir but might we want to get some help?  We don't have much of a landing section."

Lieutenant Tomas López frowned at the statement.  López stood out compared to the other officers who were in their tropical tan-yellow naval uniforms vs. his sea-green army style uniform with the crossed rifle and anchor of the Iberian Naval Infantry on his collar.  He leaned forward, "Captain my men are ready and able to take out some pirates.  Still there are only twenty five of us so some help from the rest of the ships company would be helpful."

Capitán de Corbeta Portillo coughed lightly, "Captain I have looked through the books as you ordered and Socotra is officially French."

Capitán Calderón nodded, "But?"

Capitán de Corbeta Portillo continued, "But I don't think they are doing anything about it.  There was a coaling station listed here but its listed as abandoned, no coast defense battery, no garrison and no Governor listed.  Near as I can figure nothing has occurred here since 1903 when there is a note about possible sale to Brandenburg.  All that I think is really here is a telegraph station for the French Indian Ocean Cable Company."

Capitán Calderón nodded, "Very well we will move in at dawn.  Commander Portillo will command the landing party; take fifty men from the ships company including three other officers and Lieutenant López and his Marines.  You will have seventy five men Commander and fire support from the 150's if you need them."

Portillo stood, "We will not let you down Captain!"

Dawn the next day

The Iberians landed outside the mud brick town and the ships boats quickly headed back to the cruiser sitting off shore.  Portillo called out, "Lieutenants Blanco and López."

The two officers trotted up to the commander and they along with the two other officers kneeled down, "Gentlemen as we planned.  Blanco your group goes along the waters edge and find someone who knows something about the Japanese ship.  López you take your marines into the center of the town and find the Mayor or whoever runs this shithole.  Everyone will be with me as we search this place.  If anyone runs into trouble fire a red flare.  Two yellow flares means fall back to the beach.  Understood?"

All the officers nodded.

Short time later

The Iberian Marines made their way through the streets of the mud brick town.  Anytime anyone noticed the Iberians they ducked into the nearest building or side ally.  As the Iberians neared the distinctive minarets of the Mosque a cry erupted from near by buildings, "Allahu Akbar!"
Arabs with spears, scimitars and some firearms, mostly muskets but a few rifles charge the Iberians.    Lieutenant López calls out, "Return Fire by Squad!"  One of the Iberian NCO's cries out, "Desperta ferro!" The Iberians armed half with Mannlicher Carbines and half with Thompson SMG 18's open fire.  Most of the Arabs were cut down before they could get near the Iberians, most of them.  A few Marines cry out in pain.  Lieutenant López has a red flare fired into the sky.  As the Iberians push forward war cries are shouted cross the towns streets, "Allahu Akbar" by the Arabs and a combination of "Desperta ferro", "Santiago y cierra, España" and "Portugal e São Jorge" from the Iberians.  For many Iberians the war cries remind them of childhood stories of the Reconquista.

Despite the Iberian Marines heavy firepower advantage they are hugely out numbered and the tight streets negate much of that firepower advantage.    López  need clear lines of fire for his guns to work best but only one place has that, "Marines take the Mosque!  Santiago y cierra!" As the Iberian Marines advance they hear the distant roar of what they believe is one of the ships 150's.

Elsewhere in town

"Gibraltars to me!" a young Ensign calls out next the shattered body of Lieutenant López, "Keep your head down sir." A chief told the Ensign and then pulled him down, "Sir we need to take out that pop gun."

The Ensign nodded, "Signalman!  Ask the Gibraltar for fire support and everyone get your head down!"

On the Bridge of the Gibraltar, "Message from Lieutenant López, 'B-R-A-S-S- - -C-A-N-N-O-N- - - R-E-Q-U-E-S-T- - -F-I-R-E- - -S-U-P-P-O-R-T'"

Capitán Calderón grunted, "A and B batteries open fire!" The forward 150mm gun crews had been waiting for the order since the first blast of the cannon had kicked up its cloud of dust.

Back in the town, "Signalman, Tell them to drop 50 and fire for effect!"

The signal lamp quickly relayed the instructions back to the Gibraltar and her forward guns adjusted their aim and went to rapid fire.  One round every six seconds was soon landing among the buildings of the town front.  After two minutes the guns ceased fire. 

Ensign Jose Ramírez stands and shouts, "Forward Gibraltars!"

To be continued...