Map of China

[miketr]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma_Railway

It depends on what you qualify as finished?  There could be a limited use narrow gauge in operation.  I doubt it would be up to commercial traffic. 

[ctwaterman]

Do to Terrain and the recent treaty that mandated a railroad into Burma to be blunt that Railroad isnt complete Yet it will be years before its complete.... its either 4 or 5X as long as it is on the map or you had to blast a dozen tunnels throught the mountains.

After looking back at the treaty signed in 1916 its possible just possible this railroad is complete but it took more then 100,000 POW it took something China has but I dont see the population reduction.  If your willing to spend a million or more lives just like the Emperor did to build the Great Wall.... :)  Lets just say the project required to commitment of resources that building the OTL Panama Canal did or even the Burma Road.  But with less Mechanical Equipment.   

[Logi]

I've had three years to build the Burma railroad. And it doesn't even run the same route.

It's not the Burma Railroad... It's a railroad from Kunming to Mandalay, which is far easier given the very convenient valley from Kunming to Mandalay.

its either 4 or 5X as long as it is on the map or you had to blast a dozen tunnels through the mountains.

I thought blowing through the mountains would be necessary as well, but as I looked on the topographical maps, I noticed my line, which is shown on the map, runs very smoothly in one of the few passes there.

Of course the result is a railway that is quite longer than blowing through the mountains.

[damocles]

http://www.agc.army.mil/Burma/maps/TerrainRegions1968.jpg

http://www.worldcountries.info/Maps/GoogleMap-Burma.php

No, respectfully, it isn't. Just the rivers and their chasms are show stoppers. ITS WHY THE BURMA ROAD TOOK THAT HELLISH ROUTE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

http://www.iexplore.com/dmap/Burma%28Myanmar%29/Weather+and+Climate

Weather is also a show stopper. Central Burma in 1919 is a hellhole for construction rife with disease and instant heat casualties. The place is also a wildlife preserve with enough dangerous animals there to even terrify an army. It DID in WW II.

D. 

[Logi]

How about actually reading the route of my railroad instead of stopping at Burma?

It's NOT the same route, it's not even the same two cities. It's not the same terrain it's traversing. Now shut the hell up because you didn't even care to read.

In fact you pretty much proved my point. Your first map contains the same exact route I used. Now why is that, hm?

[damocles]

NOTE WHEN IT WAS ACTUALLY BUILT?

Don't take this so personally. Its just that we are dealing with turn of the century tech here and man klling terrain that even Qin Shi Huang's engineers could not handle. There isn't a Post WW II tech base to use to accomplish these miracles you declare, Logi.

Do you know how long it took to put in the Appalachia Scenic Highway over friendlier terrain, better weather, and with the world's best road construction machinery after WW II?

FIFTY years and almost 14 billion dollars and more than 100 lives.  They just finished it this year.   

*PS. Why did you tell me to shut up?

[Logi]

IT"S NOT THE SAME ROUTE, STOP HARPING ON A DIFFERENT PATH

[damocles]

I am talking about the same exact terrain you are trying to use as an excuse. Its not possible in 1919. It the country was a jungle with trails at best with a huge mountain range spine down the west and hundreds of rivers like the veins in a leaf that flowed east.

For the love of logic, that is helicopter country even today.

Read>

http://www.iwm.org.uk/upload/package/1/burma/summary.htm  

[Logi]

http://ssreporters.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/facepalm.jpg
We're not even on the same page anymore.

[damocles]

http://ledoroad.home.comcast.net/~ledoroad/Ledo_Bridges.html

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/airlana/mm=%20Burma%201946.jpg

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?t=1342

I wish I could magically fly you there and show you what you are really up against.

Its not as easy as a fuzzy map makes it look.

Please understand, there are limits even to fantasy. You would find it tough to do today. Just look at the trouble the Chinese had with the Tibet railroad? This terrain is worse because the ground won't tale weight. Remember when I discussed paved runways in Malaysia?

I was arguing against myself because I didn't think Dutch air force bases could work there without the paving. The mods let it go, because they ruled I could use grass. Well I know I have to pave them, and in all honesty I intend to pave them because its the only fair way to play.  If that land can't hold a plane, what chance does a RR bed have without a lot of rolling and stabilization after clearing the jungle for the elevated way?     

[Logi]

I realize you did not see the first picture and we're still not on the same page, thus.

http://ssreporters.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/facepalm.jpg

[ctwaterman]

I believe he is trying to point out the General Condition Indicated by the terrain.  We can only talk about roads that were built in real life.

I didnt bother to point out that the conditions on the ground are similar to the Owen Stanley Mountains and the fighting in New Guinea durring WWII.

[damocles]

I don't see what your attempt to ignore the heart of the terrain problem has to do with a picture of a man doing a face-palm.

Your visual metaphor does not apply, so I ignored it, just like you ignored soft ground, numerous rivers, the mountains the Monsoon  season, disease, wild animals, hostile local indigenous peoples, and a host of other factors that still leaves Burma today with an infrastructure vastly inferior to Thailand and Vietnam or even Cambodia.

     

[Logi]

Hmm considering that the government of Burma accepted and agreed to jointly build this railroad, I am quite curious how the local indigenous peoples would be hostile to something they approved.

Then again, you are just sprouting stuff. I've addressed the mountains, the disease (the Burmese finish their portion of the railroad), soft ground (in the mountains?), the monsoon season (don't see how it's my problem, not my portion of the railroad to build), wild animals (again, not my problem, reinforcement by the fact that workers are protected by armed soldiers), numerous rivers (I only have to cross one in my route).

Again, not my problem. Not my use. You call holler foul play if you want, but let's face it, that railroad is not being used. If it'll satisfy your ego, we can pretend it doesn't exist for five years, it still won't change a thing as it's not used.

In fact, why don't you holler at the treaty that stated I have to pay for the whole damn thing? It's not like I'm really getting something out of it.

Point? You're hollering and screaming blood mercy on something something completely pointless and unimportant. What am I going to do whilst at war with the MK, open a two-front war? Not to mention if I win against the MK, I'm not allowed to expand anymore.

But keep arguing over nothing, maybe somehow you're find a point to all the arguing.

[damocles]

Hmm considering that the government of Burma accepted and agreed to jointly build this railroad, I am quite curious how the local indigenous peoples would be hostile to something they approved.

The government of Burma? You are kidding right? Just what do you really know about Burma, real or Nverse? 

Then again, you are just sprouting stuff. I've addressed the mountains, the disease (the Burmese finish their portion of the railroad), soft ground (in the mountains?), the monsoon season (don't see how it's my problem, not my portion of the railroad to build), wild animals (again, not my problem, reinforcement by the fact that workers are protected by armed soldiers), numerous rivers (I only have to cross one in my route).

On the plateau, Logi and the east shield wall of the mountains, and the rivers  that flows into and across it. You don't know the geography at all, do you?   

Again, not my problem. Not my use. You call holler foul play if you want, but let's face it, that railroad is not being used. If it'll satisfy your ego, we can pretend it doesn't exist for five years, it still won't change a thing as it's not used.

You want an easy invasion route. So magically you assume now the Burmese will do what you cannot do for them and that your easy half + their hard half means instant access? Nope. If you can't do it for them, they haven't got a  prayer. You just blew your own argument up here. 

In fact, why don't you holler at the treaty that stated I have to pay for the whole damn thing? It's not like I'm really getting something out of it.

See what I wrote. You want to grab Burma or at least puppet it in the Sim. There is a payoff if you can pull this stunt off. I'm just pointing out the difficulties I have with magic declarations like this impossible railroad, when I know (from recent experience with modifying the Dutch destroyers) that its much better to play the game for real, and not game the play.   

D.