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[damocles]

@ TC: I was referring to my pictures, not yours. I know your picture's capabilities.

@Damcoles: The RRC does have access to that design, but why use Yang Quizi and less advanced designs, when you can fall back on a thousand year history of using rockets (and incorporate Goddard's design as well), and use them quite well? You forget China invented the rocket and reached pretty much it's principle until WW2 when the Germans beat them at it. Let's not forget any Korean rocket technology was stolen from the Chinese. Do I really ned to drag out all the historical rockets and technology by China for this?

Also, enlarging things is never a problem, the problem is efficiency. If you can build a 5kg solid fuel rocket, you can build a 50kg solid fuel rocket. The problem is that you never fixed the problems inherent in the design.

Added to the fact that China has already used such rockets in a very recent war and has researched rocket technology extensively even when it was not an actual tech, your point is mute.

With respect.......

1. The Chinese invented, gunpowder, the rocket, movable type printing, and the rudder, but......

a. they did not invent the cannon.
b, they did not invent the rocket nozzle bell nozzle and gyro spin stabilization.
c. they did not invent the offset stamp printing press  
d. they did not invent cable-controlled steering  via wheel.

===========================================

a. was the Monguls and the Turks.
b. Robert Goddard invented  the de Laval nozzle and William Hale invented the vane thrust controllers that did away with the long sticks used to stabilize in prior rockets.  
c. Gutenberg via Bohemian wine press technology (Czech) invented the offset stamp printing press.
d. The Italiams invented the cable steered ridder.

AND the Koreans invented the Songjeon rocket battery.  

With all due respect but the rocket technology as defined current, limits you to a Goddard type single tube improved version of the fuse fired Hale gunpowder rocket. You will not get a mattress rocket launcher until you solve steel extruded de laval motor casings and electric ignition of smokeless powder large grain solid rocket motor fuels. That was not solved in RTL until 1938. Otherwise you will simply blow yourself up with anything but a Songjeon. Nobody has the slow burn fuels yet.

D.  

[TexanCowboy]

Hey...he's been doing some serious writing on this, for several years. Although I agree that it may be too early for a rocket tank, it's not fair to him to not let him innovise using Chinese designed rockets. This isn't the real world. For all we may know, the Chinese may have discovered these techniques....

[damocles]

Hey...he's been doing some serious writing on this, for several years. Although I agree that it may be too early for a rocket tank, it's not fair to him to not let him innovise using Chinese designed rockets. This isn't the real world. For all we may know, the Chinese may have discovered these techniques....

???

Its not my place to say yeah or nay. I'm just saying what the real history was. Maybe he does have the tech that duplicates the Russian or American research into perchlorates and cellulose based solid rocket motor fuels, but it took a crazed Georgian mystic in one case and a Southern California Satan worshiper in the other to invent the fuels. Until then it was gunpowder rockets. Even the German Nebelwerfer and panzerfaust used captured Russian and American technology-specifically the fuels and ignition methods they invented. 

[Logi]

With respect.......

1. The Chinese invented, gunpowder, the rocket, movable type printing, and the rudder, but......

a. they did not invent the cannon.
b, they did not invent the rocket nozzle bell nozzle and gyro spin stabilization.
c. they did not invent the offset stamp printing press  
d. they did not invent cable-controlled steering  via wheel.

===========================================

a. was the Monguls and the Turks.
b. Robert Goddard invented  the de Laval nozzle and William Hale invented the vane thrust controllers that did away with the long sticks used to stabilize in prior rockets.  
c. Gutenberg via Bohemian wine press technology (Czech) invented the offset stamp printing press.
d. The Italiams invented the cable steered ridder.

AND the Koreans invented the Songjeon rocket battery.  

With all due respect but the rocket technology as defined current, limits you to a Goddard type single tube improved version of the fuse fired Hale gunpowder rocket. You will not get a mattress rocket launcher until you solve steel extruded de laval motor casings and electric ignition of smokeless powder large grain solid rocket motor fuels. That was not solved in RTL until 1938. Otherwise you will simply blow yourself up with anything but a Songjeon. Nobody has the slow burn fuels yet.

a. The Chinese invented the cannon. The Mongols stole it from the Chinese, the Chinese were USING the cannon against the mongols during the invasion.
b. The Chinese invented fin stabilization to a great degree. I never claim spin stabilization. Also I did say Goddard achievements are incorporated as I have various agreements which allows me access to these great scientists.
c. The Chinese did invent the print press, it was not reported. Completely false.
d. When you're accurate you don't need cable steering. Btw this point has nothing to do with my rockets.

The rocket battery was invented in China, drifted to Korea where it received great fame. Much less fame in China. Go read.

Its not my place to say yeah or nay. I'm just saying what the real history was. Maybe he does have the tech that duplicates the Russian or American research into perchlorates and cellulose based solid rocket motor fuels, but it took a crazed Georgian mystic in one case and a Southern California Satan worshiper in the other to invent the fuels. Until then it was gunpowder rockets. Even the German Nebelwerfer and panzerfaust used captured Russian and American technology-specifically the fuels and ignition methods they invented.  

You do realize this is N-Verse right? The Americans HAVEN'T touched Rocket technology, but the South Chinese have extensively. What advances that nations IRL conducted can be said the South Chinese did in N-Verse.

In N-Verse, you have South China pouring money and time into rocket technology for years, compounded with agreements with other nations for the use of the rocket-oriented nationals (such as Goddard and what-not) in promoting the research. All this on centuries of Chinese rocketry. This is not an attempt shot out of the blue, it is the result of long and laborious work.

I didn't even say it was a Panzerfaust or Nebelwerfer. It's much less accurate, in line with the advanced of our time.

[damocles]

With respect.......

1. The Chinese invented, gunpowder, the rocket, movable type printing, and the rudder, but......

a. they did not invent the cannon.
b, they did not invent the rocket nozzle bell nozzle and gyro spin stabilization.
c. they did not invent the offset stamp printing press  
d. they did not invent cable-controlled steering  via wheel.

===========================================

a. was the Monguls and the Turks.
b. Robert Goddard invented  the de Laval nozzle and William Hale invented the vane thrust controllers that did away with the long sticks used to stabilize in prior rockets.  
c. Gutenberg via Bohemian wine press technology (Czech) invented the offset stamp printing press.
d. The Italiams invented the cable steered ridder.

AND the Koreans invented the Songjeon rocket battery.  

With all due respect but the rocket technology as defined current, limits you to a Goddard type single tube improved version of the fuse fired Hale gunpowder rocket. You will not get a mattress rocket launcher until you solve steel extruded de laval motor casings and electric ignition of smokeless powder large grain solid rocket motor fuels. That was not solved in RTL until 1938. Otherwise you will simply blow yourself up with anything but a Songjeon. Nobody has the slow burn fuels yet.

a. The Chinese invented the cannon. The Mongols stole it from the Chinese, the Chinese were USING the cannon against the mongols during the invasion.

The Chinese used rockets and noise mortars. It was the Mongols who made the astute modification to use a touch hole and fill the pot with projectiles. The Turks came up with cannonballs. 

b. The Chinese invented fin stabilization to a great degree. I never claim spin stabilization. Also I did say Goddard achievements are incorporated as I have various agreements which allows me access to these great scientists.

The spin stabilized rocket was inspired by the rifled gun. Chinese rocket boosted fletched arrows were not the same thing.

c. The Chinese did invent the print press, it was not reported. Completely false.

Offset stamped printing press. The Chinese used block and hammer. They struck, they did not press type with a screw operated press.

d. When you're accurate you don't need cable steering. Btw this point has nothing to do with my rockets.

Zhang Fei was not able to tack as close to the wind as Vittorio Veneto. It also has everything to do with rockets as the early Italian ship cable controls were refined by the English so that you could set the rudder (chock it with stay ropes or set blocks at the steering wheel) and set a timed baseline course by compass and clock. Saved wear and tear on the helmsman. GUIDANCE SYSTEM-the first practical automatic one in history.     

The rocket battery was invented in China, drifted to Korea where it received great fame. Much less fame in China. Go read.

The Koreans did more with it and refined it far more which is why they get the credit . I do read history. It came in about the same time as their famous turtle ships and was the other remarkable weapon they used to defeat the Japanese.

Its not my place to say yeah or nay. I'm just saying what the real history was. Maybe he does have the tech that duplicates the Russian or American research into perchlorates and cellulose based solid rocket motor fuels, but it took a crazed Georgian mystic in one case and a Southern California Satan worshiper in the other to invent the fuels. Until then it was gunpowder rockets. Even the German Nebelwerfer and panzerfaust used captured Russian and American technology-specifically the fuels and ignition methods they invented.  

You do realize this is N-Verse right? The Americans HAVEN'T touched Rocket technology, but the South Chinese have extensively. What advances that nations IRL conducted can be said the South Chinese did in N-Verse.

In N-Verse, you have South China pouring money and time into rocket technology for years, compounded with agreements with other nations for the use of the rocket-oriented nationals (such as Goddard and what-not) in promoting the research. All this on centuries of Chinese rocketry. This is not an attempt shot out of the blue, it is the result of long and laborious work.

And this resulted in aluminium powder boosted ammonium perchlorate propellants when, if I may respectfully ask?

I didn't even say it was a Panzerfaust or Nebelwerfer. It's much less accurate, in line with the advanced of our time.

If its a Goddard 1919 rocket, I'm satisfied. 

[Logi]

The Chinese used rockets and noise mortars. It was the Mongols who made the astute modification to use a touch hole and fill the pot with projectiles. The Turks came up with cannonballs.

No the Chinese used fragmentation grenades, rocket riflemen (although this was limited in success), rocket arrows(flaming, poison,w hat-not), cannons, incendiary rocket (different from flaming arrow in that it set ablaze a much larger area and what not constructed from an arrow), multistage rockets for burning or destroying enemy ships or maiming the enemy crew by spewing forth arrows at the last stage whilst skimming just above the water's surface (like an Exocet), and other stuff. I can't remember it all cause I returned the several books I had on this (during the period I was actively researching this stuff and writing about it).

The spin stabilized rocket was inspired by the rifled gun. Chinese rocket boosted fletched arrows were not the same thing.

This was only one thing. The Chinese made actual rockets, not rocket-boosted arrows. Those were the first. And I still haven't said the Chinese invented spin stabilized.

Zhang Fei was not able to tack as close to the wind as Vittorio Veneto. It also has everything to do with rockets as the early Italian ship cable controls were refined by the English so that you could set the rudder (chock it with stay ropes or set blocks at the steering wheel) and set a timed baseline course by compass and clock. Saved wear and tear on the helmsman. GUIDANCE SYSTEM-the first practical automatic one in history.

Still has absolutely nothing to do with my rockets. When did I ever say my rockets are guided? Hence, your point is irrelevant.

The Koreans did more with it and refined it far more which is why they get the credit . I do read history. It came in about the same time as their famous turtle ships and was the other remarkable weapon they used to defeat the Japanese.

Sure, if you keep saying it, it might be true. Kinda like Korea saying everything came from it. If you keep saying it, it might become true.

And this resulted in aluminium powder boosted ammonium perchlorate propellants when, if I may respectfully ask?

When did I say aluminum powder boosted ammonium perchlorate propellants? Never. I don't see the need for them yet.

If its a Goddard 1919 rocket, I'm satisfied.

It's not a Goddard rocket. It's a Chinese rocket with Goddard improvements on it.

[Desertfox]

The Swiss do have the Goddard Rocket, shoulder launched and everything. They just hardly ever use it cause lightweight 50mm cannons are much better.

[TexanCowboy]

Meanwhile, the Romanian army has:




MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Seriously, though, a squadron, or 24 planes, has one of the machine guns replaced with three Le Prieur rockets.

[ctwaterman]

I personally Do not want to be on any airplane built with current available technology utilizing a rocket proprelled by Burning Black Powder and Ignited with a lit fuze ???????

Larger Black Powder Rockets can go further then smaller ones the problem is the Payload basically remains the same and the Rocket is almost always outranged and out shot in accuracy by a similar weight of artillary.

Logi does have one thing correct in that the only reall use for Rocket Artillary of this period is along the lines of the Chinese/Korean multipule Rocket launcher.  Saturation at short to medium ranges.

On the other hand I think his Half Track is a possibly a bit premature as well.  Does the RRC have any of the Armored Car Techs at all ????

[Logi]

Armored Car 1910 will be done by 1920.

Heavy Armour is up to 1915.

I wanted a light car, but didn't have great progress in that area, so I opted half-track. Hoping that the tank part will make up for the car part.

And yes, the point is rapid saturation, not accurate or prolonged usage. It's a surprise, fire-and-run kind of weapon.

Also: I edited out the portion about a gun-groove type spinning. I didn't really see the point after some thinking.

[ctwaterman]

The Problem is I personally think the Half Track is a late figure 1920 or latter Armored Cart or Light tank hybrid.

You could make this some sort of Heavy Tank replace the upper turret with a box with a bunch of rockets in it ?????

But to be honest even in a fantasy setting Im not a big fan of rocketry until after the 1920's.

The Goddard Rocket of 1918 is still only a slight improvement over the Gosgrove Rockets of the war of 1812 fame.   And the Goddard Bazoka of the same period was a simple tube.

Charles

[ctwaterman]

Ok looking over the History of the Half Track I think you can first really get them with Light Armor 1915 -  They first appeared in 1911 a french engineer working for the Czar of Russia made some modification to the Czars personal cars with tracks and Ski.

Also Log Haulers in USA.

Charles

[Logi]

A valid point, I suppose I can adjust the design to per track until I acquire necessary techs.

[ctwaterman]

Mobile Artillary such as you listed above is simple if you want it first Get Light Armor 1915 quite probably all the way up to light Armor 1920.  Next get Motrization 1920 as well... which allows for the Motorization of support units and such.   Figure as these two features improve so does you use of more and better towed and self propelled artillary.   To be honest your pictures are a good 2 tech developements beyond your current tech.

In addition they are not free you have to pay signficant money and BP to add Armored Car Brigades and Motorization to every single Corp in your army.

Charles

[Logi]

I have 1910 motorization, which would allow for limited mobilization of artillery units (specific artillery units) like this.

Mobile Artillery is nothing new however, like the first two mobile artillery I posted where were all created quite early.

The only ahead-of-it's-time is honestly the half-track. The other is simply a tank with rocket tubes replacing the gun piece in the turret.

I know motorization and armored car brigades are not free. I've upgrade 3 corps of my army to 1910 motorization already, expect more upgrading soon.

--- On a side-note, I will get to the diplomatic meeting after I know what happens Dar-es-Saleem.