1913 Reformist Chinese Destroyer

[Logi]

Yongqi, Chinese Destroyer laid down 1913 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   749 t light; 777 t standard; 880 t normal; 962 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   307.82 ft / 300.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 8.00 ft (normal load)
   93.82 m / 91.44 m x 9.14 m  x 2.44 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 128 lbs / 58 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   2 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,118 shp / 10,532 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 2,400nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 186 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   80 - 105

Cost:
   £0.110 million / $0.440 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 1.0 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 437 tons, 49.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 267 tons, 30.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 131 tons, 14.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     276 lbs / 125 Kg = 8.6 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.428
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.19 ft / 4.02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,642 Square feet or 524 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 57 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 122 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.44
      - Longitudinal: 1.64
      - Overall: 0.50
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weights:
8t Torpedoes ( 8 )
12t reserve weight


It's mission is to sink ships or similiar or smaller size. Feedback?

[Guinness]

20 tons is probably a good figure for misc. weight, but in the Nverse, 1908 tech 21" torpedoes only cost 1t each. So you can probably carry more. So, if you chose to carry 2 sets of twin tubes, you'd still have 16 tons for reserve (which is a reasonable figure, I think).

If it were me, I'd reduce freeboard a bit and go for more speed if possible. Also, what's the endurance at max speed?

Otherwise, the core of the design (ie, 4x4" guns) is a classic destroyer armament, so I expect this ship would perform her job well.

[Logi]

Also, what's the endurance at max speed?

Its 243nm at 28.00kts

It's the misc. weight distribution has been changed.

[Guinness]

So that comes out to be 8.67 hours. I'd want a bit more, but the CSA is maybe a little more oriented toward blue water operations than Reformist China is right now.

I think we can assume short range wireless now on any new build ship, so you don't have to account for that. So you might want to turn some of that weight into more fuel. Otherwise, this is pretty good. If it were me, I'd still trade some freeboard for fuel or range, but that's a matter of preference, not a need, I think.

EDIT: Don't forget to update the number of torpedo tubes in SS. SS2 doesn't account for their weight in hull strength calculations, etc. but it does account for them when calculating working space and stability.

[Logi]

Yongqi, Chinese Destroyer laid down 1913 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   749 t light; 778 t standard; 910 t normal; 1,016 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   307.46 ft / 300.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 8.00 ft (normal load)
   93.71 m / 91.44 m x 9.14 m  x 2.44 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 128 lbs / 58 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,555 shp / 10,858 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 3,040nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 238 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   82 - 107

Cost:
   £0.113 million / $0.451 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 0.9 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 456 tons, 50.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 253 tons, 27.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 161 tons, 17.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 16 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     260 lbs / 118 Kg = 8.1 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 11.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.08

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.442
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.19 ft / 3.71 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 61.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,706 Square feet or 530 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 57 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 122 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.45
      - Longitudinal: 1.22
      - Overall: 0.50
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

305nm at 28.00 kts

Misc. Weight:
8t Torpedoes ( 8 )
8t reserve space

[Guinness]

That looks like a pretty good DD. I like it.

[Walter]

... unfortunately

Cross-sectional: 0.45

[Logi]

How does one increase that?

[Borys]

By uncluttering the deck?
:D
You get the traditional NEDS warning from me - you have four guns, four torpedo tubes, a bridge, at least two stacks, air intakes ...
Borys

[Guinness]

see, I never look at that until it's too late.... :(

Some ideas: Increasing draught can help that some. Try trading a little bit of block coefficient for draught and see if that helps. Other than that, you'll have to trade some weight, probably.

[Logi]

Yongqi, Chinese Destroyer laid down 1913 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   760 t light; 790 t standard; 923 t normal; 1,030 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   307.10 ft / 300.00 ft x 30.00 ft x 8.00 ft (normal load)
   93.60 m / 91.44 m x 9.14 m  x 2.44 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 128 lbs / 58 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,746 shp / 11,000 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 3,040nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 240 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   83 - 108

Cost:
   £0.114 million / $0.457 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 16 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 8 tons, 0.9 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 8 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 462 tons, 50.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 254 tons, 27.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 163 tons, 17.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     259 lbs / 117 Kg = 8.1 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 11.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.91

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.449
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 77
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Stern:      10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.19 ft / 3.41 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,735 Square feet or 533 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 57 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 130 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.97
      - Overall: 0.53
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

305nm at 28.00 kts

Misc. Weight:
4t Torpedoes
16t reserve space


I reduced no. of mg, halved no. of torpedoes; does that still get a NEDS?

[Borys]

Yes.
I'd cut one more big gun.
But wait for Korpen coming to the rescue  ... :)
Borys

[Korpen]

[
I reduced no. of mg, halved no. of torpedoes; does that still get a NEDS?

There have been IRL ships that had seven 10cm gun, two 40mm guns, four torpedo tubes, two knots more speed and smaller size; all on the same ship. So with less then ten guns there is no risk of NEDS by default.

Borys constant talk about NEDS can usually be safely ignored, as it has very little foundation in reality.

[Logi]

I'm guessing I should ignore Borys and that the ship itself is fine.

[Korpen]

I'm guessing I should ignore Borys and that the ship itself is fine.

Pretty much, but i would recommend increasing draft 15-20cm (giving her a BC of around 0,420) as this would increase seakeeping without any loss in performance.