Worse than Madness?

[The Rock Doctor]

Since Egypt eventually opted not to purchase any...yet...I see no reason not to share this.

The idea began with me noticing that I had four unused Russian 356mm guns lying in my inventory.  Other than installing them in some sort of sensible coastal defence battery, what could I do with them?  One possible answer was a high-speed monitor of sorts, designed for hit and run strikes against hard or valuable targets.


(Note:  this is a preliminary sketch; it doesn't necessary fit the sim perfectly)

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   4,625 t light; 4,782 t standard; 5,226 t normal; 5,581 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   480.00 ft / 475.72 ft x 48.23 ft x 17.72 ft (normal load)
   146.30 m / 145.00 m x 14.70 m  x 5.40 m

Armament:
      1 - 14.02" / 356 mm guns in single mounts, 1,376.64lbs / 624.43kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading gun in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward
      3 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.98kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      1 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.38lbs / 3.80kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
      4 - 0.31" / 8.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1,804 lbs / 818 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 50
   6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -         0.98" / 25 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 38,986 shp / 29,083 Kw = 28.70 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 799 tons)

Complement:
   306 - 399

Cost:
   £0.621 million / $2.482 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 225 tons, 4.3 %
   Armour: 92 tons, 1.8 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 92 tons, 1.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,554 tons, 29.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,578 tons, 49.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 601 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 175 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,514 lbs / 1,594 Kg = 2.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 1.9 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 14.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.99
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.450
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.86 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Mid (40 %):      20.67 ft / 6.30 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Stern:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.43 ft / 5.01 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 131.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,635 Square feet or 1,360 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 105 lbs/sq ft or 510 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.89
      - Overall: 1.03
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[Kaiser Kirk]

Puts me in mind of USS Vesuvius, but with a longer range gun.
It doesn't have enough rounds to pummel a fort, to low a ROF for naval combat, so unless there is a specialist role in mind, strikes me as a rather expensive terror weapon,

[Guinness]

Agree with Kaiser Kirk: I'm not sure that gun could be expected to actually hit anything, but as a weapon to terrorize civilians, it could be quite effective.

I can imagine that letting one of these loose in the in the Atlantic or Pacific could mean the CSA would have to tie up considerable forces to find her and sink her, out of fear that she might turn up and shell San Diego or Norfolk. At the very least, it would be likely to encourage us to pay a bit more attention to coast defense than we do now.

All that said, I wonder if the big gun might be better mounted toward the stern? At least then it could also be used to fling 625 kilo shells at pursuers.

[The Rock Doctor]

I wondered about that too, but speculated that it would interfere too much with the machinery.  Not that the existing location does wonders for the internal layout...

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Unless I'm missing something (armour belt), it can be sunk by anything of comparable speed and size, armed with 5,5" guns or better. Meh - if operating alone, a halfflotilla of torpedo boats should dispatch it.

Borys

[Korpen]

I think you have tried too much to keep her sane!
Why not something slower, but cheper?

Smasher, All God laid down 1912
Armoured gunboat

Displacement:
   670 t light; 692 t standard; 769 t normal; 831 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   229,66 ft / 229,66 ft x 26,25 ft x 9,84 ft (normal load)
   70,00 m / 70,00 m x 8,00 m  x 3,00 m

Armament:
      1 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns in single mounts, 1 951,09lbs / 885,00kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading gun in casemate mount
     on bow with limited arc
     1 gun in hull casemate - Limited use in any sea
     Main guns limited to end-on fire
      3 - 1,97" / 50,0 mm guns in single mounts, 3,81lbs / 1,73kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 1 963 lbs / 890 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 6
   1 - 17,7" / 450 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 11 376 shp / 8 486 Kw = 26,00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 138 tons
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   72 - 94

Cost:
   £0,223 million / $0,892 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 211 tons, 27,4 %
   Machinery: 161 tons, 20,9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 273 tons, 35,5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 99 tons, 12,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 26 tons, 3,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     110 lbs / 50 Kg = 0,1 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 0,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 2,04
   Metacentric height 2,1 ft / 0,6 m
   Roll period: 7,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1,33
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,454
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15,15 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -65,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -26,25 ft / -8,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      10,17 ft / 3,10 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   10,17 ft / 3,10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      10,17 ft / 3,10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   10,01 ft / 3,05 m
      - Stern:      9,84 ft / 3,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   10,10 ft / 3,08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 276,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 103,3 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 857 Square feet or 358 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 29 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 189 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,50
      - Longitudinal: 4,82
      - Overall: 0,62
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is extremely poor
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

The elevation in the deck above the breech is the gravity-fed magazine, combined with a recoil-cocked rammer and cased ammo it should allow her three shots in 15-20 seconds (followed by about an hour or two for the forth round).
She got enogh misc weight for DD FC. The guns have no training (aimed by pointing the ship), only some elevation.

[The Rock Doctor]

A flaw in my character, no doubt.

[Korpen]

A flaw in my character, no doubt.

Indeed, sanity is an overvalued trait.  ;)


But odd and/or bizarre ships are always fun. :)

[Kaiser Kirk]

I think you have tried too much to keep her sane!
Why not something slower, but cheper?

Heh USS vesuvius was 930 tons, made 21kts (1888) and had the guns fixed forward. Similar concept.

I do think that in the design shown, the bow wave riding up and battering the seals around the barrel would lead to constant leaks and battering, much like the various navies found with casement guns in the North Atlantic.

[Korpen]

But for the concept itself (The Doctors ship that is), I do not think it is that bad an idea, the big gun will have the ability to wreck most thing it its owns size, and it armament of 14cm guns makes it a decent all-round cruiser. It a fight with other ships I think it is better to think of the big gun as an "air torpedo" rather then a gun, that is: to be used at short range to do crippling damage. Also big gun shrapnel can shred smaller torpedo boats, and destroy most equipment on deck, such as torpedo tubes...

[Desertfox]

Alright, I definately NEED one of those!

Speaking of which, I was actually working on a Dynamite Gunship this morning for NZ.

[Borys]

I think you have tried too much to keep her sane!
Why not something slower, but cheper?

Heh USS vesuvius was 930 tons, made 21kts (1888) and had the guns fixed forward. Similar concept.

I do think that in the design shown, the bow wave riding up and battering the seals around the barrel would lead to constant leaks and battering, much like the various navies found with casement guns in the North Atlantic.

Yes, battered and leaky seals are notorious for being poor gunners!
Borys

[The Rock Doctor]

Alright, I definately NEED one of those!

Well, you were looking for ways to spend your BP...

[Desertfox]

Exacly...

By how much can you reduce the cost of that ship? You might just have found yourself a buyer.

[The Rock Doctor]

Beats me.  If she gets any smaller, the recoil effect becomes a problem.  On the other hand, one could probably develop and swap in a single 12" instead.

There's the little problem of NZ not being on such good terms with GC's Iberian allies, however.