NS 1914 ship Proposals

[P3D]

It's mostly online for me, too, and libraries - but I bought Friedman BBs and cruisers. You could get a copy for 40 bucks.

http://www.dealoz.com/prod.pl?cat=book&op=buy&lang=en-us&search_country=us&cur=usd&sort=total_cost:asc&shipping_pref=cost&data_id=1138930

You should be able to get it via interlibrary loan if the local one does not have it.

edit: you might get it cheaper after christmas.

[Tanthalas]

well im not afraid to just go buy the thing (if I know what to buy remember im a ground pounder aka bullet catcher by training)

[Guinness]

Friedman's Battleships is in print right now:

http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Battleships-Illustrated-Design-History/dp/0870217151/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228054014&sr=8-1

I bought cruisers used recently, it was less cheap.

[Tanthalas]

USNSS Revenge (final), USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1916



Displacement:
   26,472 t light; 27,840 t standard; 30,590 t normal; 32,790 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 707.00 ft x 98.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 215.49 m x 29.87 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      9 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (8x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (2x2 guns), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      6 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns (4 mounts), 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all aft, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 13,391 lbs / 6,074 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   456.30 ft / 139.08 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   456.30 ft / 139.08 m   27.13 ft / 8.27 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 84,135 shp / 62,764 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,950 tons

Complement:
   1,156 - 1,503

Cost:
   £4.535 million / $18.140 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,674 tons, 5.5 %
   Armour: 8,898 tons, 29.1 %
      - Belts: 3,454 tons, 11.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 687 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 1,948 tons, 6.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,598 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 211 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,135 tons, 10.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,366 tons, 40.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,118 tons, 13.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     39,260 lbs / 17,808 Kg = 28.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.515
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      28.00 ft / 8.53 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.78 ft / 6.03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,807 Square feet or 4,348 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 189 lbs/sq ft or 923 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.34
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weight: 400 tons
250 tons FC
  25 tons Wireless
  25 tons Flag Facilities
  25 tons Crew Comfort
  25 tons Reserved
  50 tons Radar instalation

[Korpen]

Advantage, USNS Scout Cruiser laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   5,900 t light; 6,170 t standard; 7,108 t normal; 7,859 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   505.00 ft / 505.00 ft x 54.50 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
   153.92 m / 153.92 m x 16.61 m  x 6.71 m

Armament:
      6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 1,536 lbs / 697 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Just six main guns, no secondaries?

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   320.00 ft / 97.54 m   8.82 ft / 2.69 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

VERY narrow belt, considering the large amount of fuel she carries, I would say that is a problem.
Also the belt is too short (not by much i would guess).

Miscellaneous weights: 180 tons, 2.5 %

Just six main guns, and no FC?

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.411

Seen destroyers with higher BC, I think it is a bit low considering her size.

I get the impression that the ships are supposed to be highly specialised, but not certain for what; the small number of guns makes her unsuited to melees, but they are not really big enough to give any real long-range advantage, especially considering the lack of space for FC.

[Tanthalas]

Folowons th the previous Scout Cruisers

Sydney, USNS Scout Cruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   8,000 t light; 8,317 t standard; 9,439 t normal; 10,337 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   552.00 ft / 540.00 ft x 58.50 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load)
   168.25 m / 164.59 m x 17.83 m  x 7.32 m

Armament:
      6 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 1,536 lbs / 697 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   375.00 ft / 114.30 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      4.00" / 102 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 64,045 shp / 47,777 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,020 tons

Complement:
   478 - 622

Cost:
   £1.162 million / $4.648 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 192 tons, 2.0 %
   Armour: 1,459 tons, 15.5 %
      - Belts: 743 tons, 7.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 347 tons, 3.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 369 tons, 3.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 2,554 tons, 27.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,545 tons, 37.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,439 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9,342 lbs / 4,238 Kg = 36.5 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.436
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.23 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m (21.00 ft / 6.40 m aft of break)
      - Mid (70 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.20 ft / 5.85 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 19,924 Square feet or 1,851 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 104 lbs/sq ft or 507 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.78
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[The Rock Doctor]

I'd be looking for AA guns, machine guns, torps, and some extra weight for future growth and long-range wireless...

[Jefgte]

No secondary armament ?

8000t & 8" are big for scout job.

[Korpen]

Sydney, USNS Scout Cruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   8,000 t light; 8,317 t standard; 9,439 t normal; 10,337 t full load

I think I will repeat my comments; just six guns?
Se needs misc weight for communications equipment (if the 250t is FC) or FC (if the 250ton is not).

Too large to be a scout that can be risked, but not capable to fight if needed IMO.

[P3D]

If you want to economize, economize on speed rather than armament.

[Korpen]

First of the "New Generation" Battlecruisers
3 under construction (USNSS Inflexible, USNSS Indefatigable, USNSS Invincible)



USNSS Inflexible, USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   23,800 t light; 24,868 t standard; 27,767 t normal; 30,087 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   719.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.15 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
     2 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas

From the 1914/2 report:

                
Research              Turn      Notes
1908 Guns               1         1.00 spent this HY  1.00 Total Tech Exchange
1912 DD                 6         1.00 spent this HY  6.00 Total
1913 Aircraft           2         1.00 spent this HY  2.00 Total
1912 Night Fight        5         1.00 spent this HY  5.00 Total
trip 12" mount          3          .50 spent this HY  1.50 Total
Trip 14" mount          3          .50 spent this HY  1.50 Total
1910 CBR                5         1.00 spent this HY  5.00 Total

It seem like you lack the tech for building those ships, as you did not have any triple 356mm gun turrets in 1913 when they were laid down.