Large sloop

[Korpen]

For some reason this kind of ships fascinate me. But would I be insane to consider building this?

SL-7, Netherlands Sloop laid down 1916

Displacement:
   17 100 t light; 17 892 t standard; 19 509 t normal; 20 803 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,78 ft / 721,78 ft x 75,46 ft x 26,31 ft (normal load)
   220,00 m / 220,00 m x 23,00 m  x 8,02 m

Armament:
      9 - 9,45" / 240 mm guns (3x3 guns), 485,02lbs / 220,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 61,73lbs / 28,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 5 353 lbs / 2 428 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130
   8 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,33" / 110 mm   524,93 ft / 160,00 m   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,66" / 220 mm   4,33" / 110 mm      7,09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   2,17" / 55 mm   0,59" / 15 mm      1,97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 9,84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140 000 shp / 104 440 Kw = 33,45 kts
   Range 10 385nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 911 tons

Complement:
   824 - 1 072

Cost:
   £2,972 million / $11,886 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 580 tons, 3,0 %
   Armour: 3 351 tons, 17,2 %
      - Belts: 1 529 tons, 7,8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 892 tons, 4,6 %
      - Armour Deck: 776 tons, 4,0 %
      - Conning Tower: 154 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 5 216 tons, 26,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7 603 tons, 39,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 409 tons, 12,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1,8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16 448 lbs / 7 461 Kg = 39,0 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
   Metacentric height 4,4 ft / 1,3 m
   Roll period: 15,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,476
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Stern:      21,98 ft / 6,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,90 ft / 6,07 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111,8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140,5 %
   Waterplane Area: 35 532 Square feet or 3 301 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 679 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,13
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[maddox]

I just wander what opponents she has to fight.

What about a 275mm L50 gunned version?

[The Rock Doctor]

You speak as if we don't already consider you insane.

I read it as a killer of light cruisers, built fast enough to avoid the many armored cruisers that could otherwise swat it aside.  How close am I?

[Korpen]

You speak as if we don't already consider you insane.

Good point, and one none of us thought of.

I read it as a killer of light cruisers, built fast enough to avoid the many armored cruisers that could otherwise swat it aside.  How close am I?

Close enogh. She would be a scout for the battle line, if she finds something too powerful for her to handle it means that it is worth the attention of the ships of the line. And with the mina line force making 27kts high speed is needed of a scout.

[miketr]

Very much like my AC-1916 design studies but faster and armed with 240mm weapons.

Also the drawing looks like a pair of twin 21" torpedoes but the SS has eight.

I really wish I could drawings like that...

Michael

[Korpen]

Also the drawing looks like a pair of twin 21" torpedoes but the SS has eight.

The dark dots in the forecastle is the doors to the other pairs of tubes.

Drawing is easy, all one need is a ability to count to 4 and quite some time in the beginning.
And I managed to finish gymnasium (high school level I think) with a "fail" in drawing, so if I can, anyone can. :)

[The Rock Doctor]

Why not just build fast light cruisers, then?  They're just as effective at establishing contact with enemy heavy scouts and calling for battleline support.

[Carthaginian]

The problem with this ship is here in N-verse, there is no room for a 'heavy cruiser.'
As has been pointed out, she is too light to fight a battlecruiser, and too slow to escape one. In real life, I think the Dutch would have been well served building a ship like this; in N-verse, it's just the better half of a battle cruiser wasted on something easily killed.

A rather pretty ship, but not one that will be successful in our world.

A minor catch- her 120mm guns are listed in singles, but you have them drawn as twins. ;)

[The Rock Doctor]

Yeah, this would've been hell on wheels for a historical Japanese CA to deal with.

[Jefgte]

This nice concept could be a terror for an enemy squadron if...

You place the 120mm on the centerline
& add much TT on the side.

You could certainly install 24 or 32 TT to have a Torpedo Cruiser.


;)

[Korpen]

The problem with this ship is here in N-verse, there is no room for a 'heavy cruiser.'
As has been pointed out, she is too light to fight a battlecruiser, and too slow to escape one. In real life, I think the Dutch would have been well served building a ship like this; in N-verse, it's just the better half of a battle cruiser wasted on something easily killed.

A rather pretty ship, but not one that will be successful in our world.

Hehe, you know, I never thought along the lines of "heavy cruiser" until you said it now. :)
Was more thinking of "light battlecruiser", and I have not ruled out having 4x35cm guns instead of the 9x24cm guns (as seen about in the thread). But it is true that seen as a heavy cruiser she would be quite impressive.

This nice concept could be a terror for an enemy squadron if...

You could certainly install 24 or 32 TT to have a Torpedo Cruiser.

I do not like the torpedo-cruiser concepts, it is an artillery ship, nothing else.

[Korpen]

Why not just build fast light cruisers, then?  They're just as effective at establishing contact with enemy heavy scouts and calling for battleline support.

They are NO FUN!
Also, less effective at wiping out enemy light cruisers as to get them up to 33kts the cruisers would be quite large (over 6000ton) without any fighting edge over a 4000ton ship.


Larger, and ,5 kts slower, pretty much a copy of the first design in this thread.
SL-15, Netherlands Sloop laid down 1916

Displacement:
   18 500 t light; 19 545 t standard; 21 247 t normal; 22 608 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,78 ft / 721,78 ft x 75,46 ft x 28,54 ft (normal load)
   220,00 m / 220,00 m x 23,00 m  x 8,70 m

Armament:
      4 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1 951,09lbs / 885,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns (8x2 guns), 61,73lbs / 28,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 8 792 lbs / 3 988 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 124
   8 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,13" / 105 mm   542,09 ft / 165,23 m   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 116 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,66" / 220 mm   4,02" / 102 mm      7,09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   2,17" / 55 mm   0,59" / 15 mm      1,97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 9,84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140 000 shp / 104 440 Kw = 33,00 kts
   Range 10 385nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 063 tons

Complement:
   879 - 1 143

Cost:
   £3,550 million / $14,201 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 943 tons, 4,4 %
   Armour: 3 202 tons, 15,1 %
      - Belts: 1 500 tons, 7,1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 762 tons, 3,6 %
      - Armour Deck: 778 tons, 3,7 %
      - Conning Tower: 163 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 5 216 tons, 24,5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 789 tons, 41,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 747 tons, 12,9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16 033 lbs / 7 273 Kg = 9,6 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
   Metacentric height 4,3 ft / 1,3 m
   Roll period: 15,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,478
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Stern:      21,98 ft / 6,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   19,90 ft / 6,07 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131,9 %
   Waterplane Area: 35 591 Square feet or 3 307 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 767 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,34
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

38cm guns is always worthy respect. :)
In fact the payload of a 38cm HE shell and a torpedo is about the same, so if one aim for the waterline with delay-fused HE (high sensitivity, long delay, might have to be developed) the effect should not be that dissimilar from a torpedo, and the gun is far more accurate. ;)

[Guinness]

Also, less effective at wiping out enemy light cruisers as to get them up to 33kts the cruisers would be quite large (over 6000ton) without any fighting edge over a 4000ton ship.

Yeah, but for the same $ and BP you could have 3 fast 6000t light cruisers. For scouting, numbers matter. That's three times the area that can be scouted. At least, that would be my thinking.

[miketr]

Glorious!

Michael

[P3D]

Also, less effective at wiping out enemy light cruisers as to get them up to 33kts the cruisers would be quite large (over 6000ton) without any fighting edge over a 4000ton ship.

Yeah, but for the same $ and BP you could have 3 fast 6000t light cruisers. For scouting, numbers matter. That's three times the area that can be scouted. At least, that would be my
thinking.

The Dutch fleet places operates on deterrence than actual sea control. If anyone wants to get rubber from Indonesia to Europe with commerce raiding going on against the Dutch, they should do it themselves as the Netherlands would stop merchant traffic through contested waters, anyways.

My main concern is the same - only four large guns.