Large sloop

[Korpen]

Something under consideration for 1916.
A usefull little ship to blow away all those pesky little ship people are building.
Her armour is able to withstand all cruiser fire (except of the larger armoured ones), while there is no cruiser in the world that can take 38cm shell hits.

She is also quite fast.

SL-7, Netherlands Sloop laid down 1916

Displacement:
   18 800 t light; 19 882 t standard; 21 603 t normal; 22 980 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,78 ft / 721,78 ft x 78,74 ft x 26,34 ft (normal load)
   220,00 m / 220,00 m x 24,00 m  x 8,03 m

Armament:
      4 - 14,96" / 380 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1 951,09lbs / 885,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 61,73lbs / 28,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 8 792 lbs / 3 988 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130
   6 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   544,62 ft / 166,00 m   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 116 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,66" / 220 mm   4,33" / 110 mm      7,09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -         1,97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 9,84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 143 882 shp / 107 336 Kw = 33,00 kts
   Range 5 600nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 097 tons

Complement:
   890 - 1 158

Cost:
   £3,600 million / $14,402 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 943 tons, 4,4 %
   Armour: 3 197 tons, 14,8 %
      - Belts: 1 440 tons, 6,7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 761 tons, 3,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 831 tons, 3,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 164 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 5 361 tons, 24,8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8 950 tons, 41,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 803 tons, 13,0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1,6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17 080 lbs / 7 747 Kg = 10,2 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 5,1 ft / 1,5 m
   Roll period: 14,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,505
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,17 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Stern:      21,98 ft / 6,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,03 ft / 6,11 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 116,0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 142,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 38 042 Square feet or 3 534 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 765 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,23
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Borys]

Waste of tonnage ... getting hits on cruisers with those four fifteeninchers is the problem.
Eight or ten guns of ten inch calibre is more worthwhile.
Borys

[Korpen]

Waste of tonnage ... getting hits on cruisers with those four fifteeninchers is the problem.
Eight or ten guns of ten inch calibre is more worthwhile.
Borys

The danger zone from those guns is MUCH larger then from a 24-25cm gun, also bigger guns are more versatile. For example it allows you to fire SAP instead of AP rounds, making the payload twice as large, not to mention that it allows you to skirmish with capital ships.

[Borys]

Wouldn't skirmishing with capital ships lead to "one shot wonder" jokes?
Borys

[Korpen]

Wouldn't skirmishing with capital ships lead to "one shot wonder" jokes?
Borys

Really depends on whether or not the enemy battleships explodes when its magazine gets hit.  But if they do, then yes we get some "one shot wonder" jokes.

[Korpen]

A version with tiny gun, not only does in look worse, it is far less versetile.

SL-8, Netherlands Sloop laid down 1916

Displacement:
   18 000 t light; 18 811 t standard; 20 477 t normal; 21 810 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,78 ft / 721,78 ft x 75,46 ft x 26,32 ft (normal load)
   220,00 m / 220,00 m x 23,00 m  x 8,02 m

Armament:
      9 - 9,45" / 240 mm guns (3x3 guns), 485,02lbs / 220,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 61,73lbs / 28,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 5 353 lbs / 2 428 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130
   6 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4,13" / 105 mm   557,74 ft / 170,00 m   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,66" / 220 mm   4,33" / 110 mm      7,09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -         1,97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 9,84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 160 000 shp / 119 360 Kw = 34,23 kts
   Range 5 600nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 999 tons

Complement:
   855 - 1 112

Cost:
   £3,194 million / $12,775 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 580 tons, 2,8 %
   Armour: 3 360 tons, 16,4 %
      - Belts: 1 538 tons, 7,5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 870 tons, 4,2 %
      - Armour Deck: 793 tons, 3,9 %
      - Conning Tower: 159 tons, 0,8 %
   Machinery: 5 961 tons, 29,1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7 749 tons, 37,8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 477 tons, 12,1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1,7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15 402 lbs / 6 986 Kg = 36,5 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 1,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
   Metacentric height 4,5 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 15,0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,94

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Stern:      21,98 ft / 6,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,03 ft / 6,11 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 118,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140,9 %
   Waterplane Area: 36 289 Square feet or 3 371 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 679 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,11
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

[The Rock Doctor]

She'll make a nice aircraft carrier one day.

[Guinness]

Jackie Fisher would have *loved* her.

[The Rock Doctor]

He may yet have the chance - I think he's been appropriated as a New Swiss character.

[Korpen]

She'll make a nice aircraft carrier one day.

That as well. And in the mean time it would make a usefull fleet scout

[The Rock Doctor]

Possibly; I like the theory, but am not quite sold on the specific designs.  Can you stuff 6x12" into either of those hulls?

[Korpen]

Possibly; I like the theory, but am not quite sold on the specific designs.  Can you stuff 6x12" into either of those hulls?

Sure:

SL-10, Netherlands Sloop laid down 1916

Displacement:
   17 000 t light; 17 868 t standard; 19 500 t normal; 20 806 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   707,68 ft / 707,68 ft x 72,83 ft x 26,57 ft (normal load)
   215,70 m / 215,70 m x 22,20 m  x 8,10 m

Armament:
      6 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (3x2 guns), 903,90lbs / 410,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 4,72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 61,73lbs / 28,00kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 6 411 lbs / 2 908 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130
   6 - 17,7" / 450 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   529,53 ft / 161,40 m   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,46" / 215 mm   3,94" / 100 mm      7,09" / 180 mm
   2nd:   0,98" / 25 mm         -         1,97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 9,06" / 230 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 134 624 shp / 100 429 Kw = 33,00 kts
   Range 5 660nm at 16,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 937 tons

Complement:
   824 - 1 072

Cost:
   £3,160 million / $12,640 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 755 tons, 3,9 %
   Armour: 3 191 tons, 16,4 %
      - Belts: 1 396 tons, 7,2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 905 tons, 4,6 %
      - Armour Deck: 749 tons, 3,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 141 tons, 0,7 %
   Machinery: 5 016 tons, 25,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 7 689 tons, 39,4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2 500 tons, 12,8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 349 tons, 1,8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15 031 lbs / 6 818 Kg = 17,4 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 1,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,14
   Metacentric height 3,9 ft / 1,2 m
   Roll period: 15,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,69
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0,498
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9,72 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,25 ft / 8,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24,93 ft / 7,60 m (19,69 ft / 6,00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18,04 ft / 5,50 m
      - Stern:      21,98 ft / 6,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   20,07 ft / 6,12 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 115,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 34 288 Square feet or 3 185 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 699 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,18
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

SL-9 is same size as SL-10, but with 4x35cm.

[P3D]

4 guns might get some penalties for inadequate spotting. It can put about 1/4th the shells into air compared to a 8x9-10" ship. The narrow immune zone against the Dutch 9.4" is 14.5-15.5ky.

Now we really need the new (yet-to-be-developed) resistance model of SS3 for destroyers.

[Desertfox]

Alright, it looks like someone got ahold of my plans for NS. If I didn't know better I would think that the Dutch were Swiss!

Topic: Plans of the New Switzerland Navy

Capital Ships (Phase 2)

2x BC Revenge/Retribution
4x14" guns, 30+ knots, 7" belt
Prob: Medium
Fisher's follies. Same as above.

[Korpen]

Alright, it looks like someone got ahold of my plans for NS. If I didn't know better I would think that the Dutch were Swiss!

Topic: Plans of the New Switzerland Navy

Capital Ships (Phase 2)

2x BC Revenge/Retribution
4x14" guns, 30+ knots, 7" belt
Prob: Medium
Fisher's follies. Same as above.

18cm armour would drive up size quite allot.