Rohan 1911 Battleship Designs

[Carthaginian]

Ithekro,
I don't know if anyone will be able to match that one soon... excellent ship.


P3D,
Thanks for the information on how to convert the NaAB information to other calibers.
I was getting bored hunting and pecking for historical oddballs to outfit my navy with. Now, I can begin working on original weapons that fit better into my system. :D

[Korpen]

The Mv also affects the BC, that is why the slower the shell, the higher the BC.

No. It depends on sectional density and shell form only, and has no velocity dependence whatsoever. The velocity dependence is separated into another factor.

Yes and no. The BC is an average over the speed range, so the form-factor is affected by large changes in the Mv. 

[Sachmle]

As for the proposed 1915 design with the new guns...
(Question:  Are the belts too high?)

Thengel

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.5" / 368 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   220.00 ft / 67.06 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.12 ft / 6.44 m

IMO yes. If you lowest freeboard is 18' and your upper belt is 11', then that leaves 7' of open hull, below the deck level, therefore 14' of Main belt, w/ 7' above and 7' below the water line is sufficient. I would probabaly cut the upper belt depth to 7', and leave the main belt at 22', thereby having 11' of heavy belt, w/ 7' of lighter belt above. And you're still armored to the deck level, and w/ 11' of belt below the waterline you don't have to worry about light load raising the belt out of the water, or shells hitting below the belt on high angle shots falling short.

[Ithekro]

I'll keep that in mind for the redesign.

[Ithekro]

Final(?) design for the 1911 battleship.

Aldor   (laid down H1/1911)
Samwise (to be laid down H2/1911)

Rohan Battleship laid down 1911 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   27,759 t light; 29,369 t standard; 30,500 t normal; 31,282 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   595.00 ft / 590.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   181.36 m / 179.83 m x 32.92 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      12 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1911 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1911 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1911 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 17,775 lbs / 8,063 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   385.00 ft / 117.35 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   205.00 ft / 62.48 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   385.00 ft / 117.35 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   385.00 ft / 117.35 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 36,000 shp / 26,856 Kw = 20.92 kts
   Range 5,750nm at 10.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,035 tons)

Complement:
   1,153 - 1,500

Cost:
   £3.067 million / $12.268 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,222 tons, 7.3 %
   Armour: 10,778 tons, 35.3 %
      - Belts: 3,720 tons, 12.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 577 tons, 1.9 %
      - Armament: 3,619 tons, 11.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,587 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 274 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,636 tons, 5.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,823 tons, 42.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,741 tons, 9.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32,058 lbs / 14,541 Kg = 23.4 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.620
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.46 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.46 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (50 %):      24.00 ft / 7.32 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.98 ft / 6.09 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,619 Square feet or 4,331 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 210 lbs/sq ft or 1,025 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.56
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

The Mv also affects the BC, that is why the slower the shell, the higher the BC.

No. It depends on sectional density and shell form only, and has no velocity dependence whatsoever. The velocity dependence is separated into another factor.

Yes and no. The BC is an average over the speed range, so the form-factor is affected by large changes in the Mv. 

That 'large' is definitely more than the 5% velocity difference caused by 10% shell weight increase/decrease.

[P3D]

L/B is on the low side.

[Ithekro]

Slightly better than the previous model.  The battleships are getting longer again but slowly.  The mark likes stable firing platforms.  They've also decided to go with 108 feet with for the canal and then just lengthen the vessels over time.  The ship was not built for speed since they can't really make 21 knots, but with a relative fleet speed of 20 knots (more like 18 knots)  the stable line of battleships should be able to defeat more chaotic fleet element of foreign powers.

[Ithekro]

Just a reminder.
A basic upgrade to the 1911 battleship.  A second one will be laid down at the end of 1913.

Berold

Rohan Battleship laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   28,897 t light; 30,537 t standard; 32,000 t normal; 33,042 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   635.00 ft / 630.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   193.55 m / 192.02 m x 32.92 m  x 8.23 m

Armament:
      12 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 17,775 lbs / 8,063 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   385.00 ft / 117.35 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   205.00 ft / 62.48 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     40.00 ft / 12.19 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   385.00 ft / 117.35 m   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   385.00 ft / 117.35 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   7.00" / 178 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 40,000 shp / 29,840 Kw = 21.50 kts
   Range 5,750nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,633 tons)

Complement:
   1,196 - 1,555

Cost:
   £3.383 million / $13.532 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,222 tons, 6.9 %
   Armour: 11,459 tons, 35.8 %
      - Belts: 4,225 tons, 13.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 577 tons, 1.8 %
      - Armament: 3,643 tons, 11.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,730 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 283 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,595 tons, 5.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,322 tons, 41.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,103 tons, 9.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35,132 lbs / 15,936 Kg = 25.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
   Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.610
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.83 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.10 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.78 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.48 ft / 5.94 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 49,195 Square feet or 4,570 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 207 lbs/sq ft or 1,011 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.36
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily