Peru 1915-1919 program

[Jefgte]

Testing a medium cruiser...

8500T cruiser, Peru Protected Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   8 500 t light; 8 868 t standard; 9 566 t normal; 10 125 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   554.46 ft / 554.46 ft x 65.62 ft x 20.27 ft (normal load)
   169.00 m / 169.00 m x 20.00 m  x 6.18 m

Armament:
      6 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2 571 lbs / 1 166 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   400.26 ft / 122.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   137.80 ft / 42.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     16.40 ft / 5.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 111 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.76" / 70 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 66 000 shp / 49 236 Kw = 30.11 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 257 tons

Complement:
   483 - 628

Cost:
   £1.823 million / $7.294 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 321 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 1 392 tons, 14.6 %
      - Belts: 543 tons, 5.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 310 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 509 tons, 5.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 31 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2 459 tons, 25.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 188 tons, 43.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 066 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 140 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 727 lbs / 4 412 Kg = 26.2 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.454
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.45 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.77 ft / 7.55 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   21.49 ft / 6.55 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.21 ft / 5.55 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   18.21 ft / 5.55 m
      - Stern:      18.21 ft / 5.55 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.59 ft / 5.97 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 110.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 23 283 Square feet or 2 163 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 568 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.65
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[mentat]

Yes - I like that a lot - but (don't know your budget/dock limitations) some suggestions for an alternative version B - a little bit bigger:

- add 2 x 230 mm and 2 x 120 mm

- upgrade deck armour a bit to c. 50mm

and keep everything else just as it is

Would cost a bit more but I think more capable and give a better return on investment. :)

[Jefgte]

With 8x230+8x120
the cruiser displacement increase to nearly 10 000t.

This study was also made in the "Panzerschiff spirit"
...with 2T3


;)

[mentat]

Yes - I can see the resemblance, and then there's the Big TT outfit as well

Soooo - what are they for - or is that State secret? ;)

[Jefgte]

...what are they for ...

For fun & games  :D  :D  :D


;)

[Jefgte]

7500T -2T3x230, Peru Protected  Cruiser laid down 1918



7500T -2T3x230, Peru Protected  Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7 500 t light; 7 928 t standard; 8 585 t normal; 9 111 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   553.66 ft / 551.18 ft x 59.06 ft x 20.79 ft (normal load)
   168.76 m / 168.00 m x 18.00 m  x 6.34 m

Armament:
      6 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2 914 lbs / 1 322 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   354.33 ft / 108.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   177.17 ft / 54.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     19.69 ft / 6.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 44 000 shp / 32 824 Kw = 27.74 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 183 tons

Complement:
   445 - 579

Cost:
   £1.596 million / $6.384 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 364 tons, 4.2 %
   Armour: 1 633 tons, 19.0 %
      - Belts: 794 tons, 9.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 269 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 527 tons, 6.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 43 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1 639 tons, 19.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 604 tons, 42.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 084 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 260 tons, 3.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 850 lbs / 4 468 Kg = 26.5 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.30

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.444
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Mid (40 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 20 662 Square feet or 1 920 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 537 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.47
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

High fire control - 125t
Marconi - long range wireless - 25t
Reserve - 60t
Crew confort mesures - climat control - 20t
Magazine climat control - 20t
Damage control - Extra pump & generators - 20t

[Sachmle]

She looks great, as usual, but I think more, smaller guns (i.e. 17-19cm range) and more speed would serve you better than 6 23cm guns. Plus w/ only 2 turrets it's to easy to get 1/2 your guns knocked out, especially w/ 12cm armor. Anything big enough to need 23cm guns is either A) Armed enough to hurt you, bad, B) Fast enough to run away, or C) All of the above (Like Dutch Frigates or Orange ACs)

[Jefgte]

That is just a 7500t protected cruiser, not an AC or a Frigate.

Armada need medium cruisers stronger than 6" guns.


;)

[Carthaginian]

She still does the job...
She's armed heavily enough and fast enough that most protected cruisers have to flee or die. Likewise, her size, armament and speed mean that the enemy will have to detail a battle cruiser to hunt her down, waisting a ship 3-5 times her size on a merry chase when it could be out doing nasty things to the enemy's battle fleet.
It's a compromise that a navy like Peru would have made in the real world... and because of that, I really like it.

[Jefgte]

I remember, a few years ago a topic, on Bob's Forum, about fast Armored Cruiser, able to escape HMS Invincible.  :D

Years after years & always faster...


;)

[Jefgte]

More speed & better turrets armor


8900T -2T3x230, Peru Protected  Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   8 900 t light; 9 358 t standard; 10 083 t normal; 10 663 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.09 ft / 557.09 ft x 62.34 ft x 23.42 ft (normal load)
   169.80 m / 169.80 m x 19.00 m  x 7.14 m

Armament:
      6 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2 914 lbs / 1 322 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   150.92 ft / 46.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     12.47 ft / 3.80 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      4.72" / 120 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 64 780 shp / 48 326 Kw = 29.86 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 305 tons

Complement:
   503 - 654

Cost:
   £1.911 million / $7.643 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 364 tons, 3.6 %
   Armour: 1 782 tons, 17.7 %
      - Belts: 851 tons, 8.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 326 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 558 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 48 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2 414 tons, 23.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 090 tons, 40.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 182 tons, 11.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 606 lbs / 4 357 Kg = 25.9 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.434
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.94 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Stern:      17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.93 ft / 5.77 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 21 872 Square feet or 2 032 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 558 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.74
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

High fire control - 125t
Marconi - long range wireless - 25t
Reserve - 40t
Crew confort mesures - climat control - 20t
Magazine climat control - 20t
Damage control - Extra pump & generators - 20t

[Jefgte]

Using the new T2x6" for secondary...

8800t, Peru Protected  Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   8 800 t light; 9 275 t standard; 9 993 t normal; 10 568 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   556.43 ft / 556.43 ft x 62.34 ft x 22.21 ft (normal load)
   169.60 m / 169.60 m x 19.00 m  x 6.77 m

Armament:
      6 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      4 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 107.15lbs / 48.60kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 107.15lbs / 48.60kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 139 lbs / 1 424 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   360.89 ft / 110.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   177.17 ft / 54.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     18.37 ft / 5.60 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      4.72" / 120 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 50 000 shp / 37 300 Kw = 27.95 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 294 tons

Complement:
   499 - 649

Cost:
   £1.797 million / $7.187 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 392 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 1 951 tons, 19.5 %
      - Belts: 810 tons, 8.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 528 tons, 5.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 566 tons, 5.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1 863 tons, 18.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 363 tons, 43.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 194 tons, 11.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 230 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11 551 lbs / 5 240 Kg = 31.1 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 16.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.78
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.454
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.93 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.59 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   20.34 ft / 6.20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Stern:      17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.38 ft / 5.60 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 22 198 Square feet or 2 062 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 601 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.62
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



High fire control - 100t
Marconi - long range wireless - 25t
Crew confort mesures - climat control - 25t
Magazine climat control - 25t
Damage control - Extra pump & generators - 25t
Reserve - 30t

[Carthaginian]

Since this ship is built with the AC/BB technology, is the 100t fire control enough, or would it require the 250t fire control?

[The Rock Doctor]

I would think the latter.

[Jefgte]

6" turrets for secondary are perhaps too heavy  ???
120mm are enough.

250t for FC... ok.


;)