Peru 1915-1919 program

[Guinness]

I was guessing the bow and stern mounts would sided or back to back (ala Japanese light cruisers of the early post ww1 period).

[Jefgte]

  :D  :D  :D

[The Rock Doctor]

That looks like a "negative" to me.

[Korpen]

Hull form characteristics:
   Block coefficient: 0.414
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.50 : 1

VERY low BC for ship her size, and an extreme L:B ratio.

[Jefgte]

OK - Ok

Here is a quickly design

Top view



If not validate with BC & LB ratio.
I reduce the speed.

;)

[Sachmle]

I'd say looking at the pic that that is
8 - 6" breach loading on sides distributed

[Jefgte]

Sides distribued...

Near the center line, the opposite fire angle is taller.

[Jefgte]

Finaly, I remove a couple of 6" guns & add 2x3 TT

I hope, well balanced...

Scout Cruiser, Peru 4300T laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   4 300 t light; 4 464 t standard; 5 195 t normal; 5 780 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   531.50 ft / 531.50 ft x 53.15 ft x 13.58 ft (normal load)
   162.00 m / 162.00 m x 16.20 m  x 4.14 m

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1915 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 675 lbs / 306 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 44 507 shp / 33 202 Kw = 29.90 kts
   Range 9 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 316 tons

Complement:
   305 - 397

Cost:
   £0.683 million / $2.734 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 84 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 19 tons, 0.4 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 19 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1 775 tons, 34.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 267 tons, 43.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 895 tons, 17.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 155 tons, 3.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5 012 lbs / 2 273 Kg = 46.4 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 12.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.474
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Stern:      16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.58 ft / 5.36 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 126.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 18 389 Square feet or 1 708 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 81 lbs/sq ft or 395 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.22
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

With the limited resources available to Peru, won't it be better to armor the ship against 5.5"-6" shells, make them less expendable? I admit that'd add like 1000t to the design and might slow it down a bit.

I'd increase the draught. Looking at historical vessels I found that D:B should be around 1:3-3.5 unless you don't care about deep draught (like the US, 2.5 for some protected cruisers) or you have draught restrictions (Germany).

[Jefgte]

This is a tactical debate.

Small fleet could use Torpedo boats to screen the BS & then all cruisers are "Defender"

That mean that a 4300t SC - 30kts "ll be defeat or repulse by a 4300t EC - 27kts
The 3 knots diff. are use for armor.

Here is an exemple of small EC made to repulse TB attack


I don't forget what said Almirante Commandante del Armada  - Fidel Salazar Vencedores

"We don't need fast runners, we need powerful boxers."


;)

[Jefgte]

Antisuyu, Peru Cruiser-4300t laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   4 300 t light; 4 480 t standard; 5 123 t normal; 5 637 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   495.89 ft / 492.13 ft x 49.21 ft x 15.30 ft (normal load)
   151.15 m / 150.00 m x 15.00 m  x 4.66 m

Armament:
      4 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side ends, evenly spread
      4 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 851 lbs / 386 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 18.0" / 457.2 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   328.08 ft / 100.00 m   9.45 ft / 2.88 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   137.80 ft / 42.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 32 000 shp / 23 872 Kw = 27.38 kts
   Range 8 100nm at 12.00 kts
2150nm at 21kts
1070nm at 27kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 157 tons

Complement:
   302 - 393

Cost:
   £0.609 million / $2.435 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 106 tons, 2.1 %
   Armour: 825 tons, 16.1 %
      - Belts: 469 tons, 9.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 46 tons, 0.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 290 tons, 5.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1 276 tons, 24.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 933 tons, 37.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 822 tons, 16.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 3.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6 293 lbs / 2 854 Kg = 61.1 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.484
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Mid (40 %):      13.45 ft / 4.10 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   13.45 ft / 4.10 m (13.78 ft / 4.20 m before break)
      - Stern:      13.45 ft / 4.10 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.87 ft / 4.53 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15 906 Square feet or 1 478 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 79 lbs/sq ft or 384 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.10
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Borys]

I'd cut down the number of guns to 6, and use the freed up deck for air intakes and suchlike.
I like the ship from reply 22 best.
Borys

[Jefgte]

I'd cut down the number of guns to 6...I like the ship from reply 22 best.

Almirantes choose more powerfull armament, belt armor & a slower speed for BS use.

...use the freed up deck for air intakes and suchlike...

Boilers intakes are near & under the funnels
For the turbines: near the aft mast


;)

[Jefgte]

Waskhar-28000t, Peru BB laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   28 000 t light; 29 749 t standard; 31 472 t normal; 32 851 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   616.80 ft / 616.80 ft x 104.99 ft x 27.17 ft (normal load)
   188.00 m / 188.00 m x 32.00 m  x 8.28 m

Armament:
      9 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1 200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      6 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1 200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all aft
      16 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 19 319 lbs / 8 763 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   400.26 ft / 122.00 m   12.73 ft / 3.88 m
   Ends:   4.72" / 120 mm   196.85 ft / 60.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
     19.69 ft / 6.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.15" / 80 mm   400.26 ft / 122.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.77" / 45 mm   400.26 ft / 122.00 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   13.4" / 340 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   3rd:   1.77" / 45 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 12.60" / 320 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 38 000 shp / 28 348 Kw = 21.22 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 103 tons

Complement:
   1 180 - 1 535

Cost:
   £4.683 million / $18.731 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 413 tons, 7.7 %
   Armour: 10 709 tons, 34.0 %
      - Belts: 3 819 tons, 12.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 708 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 3 084 tons, 9.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 2 827 tons, 9.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 271 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1 515 tons, 4.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12 933 tons, 41.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 472 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 430 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     37 583 lbs / 17 047 Kg = 31.3 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 6.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 17.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.626
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Mid (34 %):      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Stern:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.97 ft / 5.17 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 48 521 Square feet or 4 508 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 94 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 209 lbs/sq ft or 1 021 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.37
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Sachmle]

Guessing MB layout is A (B) bridge stack C stack D aft CT E?