Peru 1915-1919 program

[Jefgte]

9000T cruiser, Peru Protected  Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)



Displacement:
   9 000 t light; 9 486 t standard; 10 214 t normal; 10 797 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.09 ft / 557.09 ft x 59.06 ft x 21.73 ft (normal load)
   169.80 m / 169.80 m x 18.00 m  x 6.62 m

Armament:
      6 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     Main guns limited to end-on fire
      3 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (1x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline amidships
      8 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 817 lbs / 1 731 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 125
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   367.45 ft / 112.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   157.48 ft / 48.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     32.15 ft / 9.80 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   5.51" / 140 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 4.72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 52 000 shp / 38 792 Kw = 28.04 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 311 tons

Complement:
   507 - 660

Cost:
   £1.974 million / $7.896 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 477 tons, 4.7 %
   Armour: 1 826 tons, 17.9 %
      - Belts: 810 tons, 7.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 409 tons, 4.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 559 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 48 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1 937 tons, 19.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 405 tons, 43.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 214 tons, 11.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 355 tons, 3.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11 161 lbs / 5 062 Kg = 30.1 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 15.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 1.10
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.43 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.59 ft / 7.80 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   21.46 ft / 6.54 m
      - Mid (70 %):      20.80 ft / 6.34 m (12.80 ft / 3.90 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Stern:      12.80 ft / 3.90 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.99 ft / 5.79 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 21 920 Square feet or 2 036 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 601 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.66
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

High fire control - 250t
Marconi - long range wireless - 25t
Reserve - 25t
Crew confort mesures - climat control - 20t
Magazines climat control - 25t
Damages control - Extra pumps & generators - 20t

[The Rock Doctor]

You've got an issue with recoil there - too heavy a broadside for the hull's liking.

[Guinness]

Beat me to it :)

I suspect that 230mm guns on a hull under 10,000 tons probably won't work that well, at least in such numbers. 6 with more armor or speed might work. Something more like 190 or 200mm is going to work better at that size (I think).

I think for the missions I imagine this ship will be doing, more speed is needed, even if that means more displacement. At least 30 knots, if not more. That's just my opinion though.

[The Rock Doctor]

I'm inclined to agree - that six gunned, 30 kt ship on the preceding page might be a good design to refine.

[Jefgte]

oups...

Tomozuru...  ???

[Jefgte]

Last study with 2T3x230- on a 169.8m hull



9000T -2T3x230, Peru Armored  Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   9 000 t light; 9 407 t standard; 10 131 t normal; 10 711 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.09 ft / 557.09 ft x 65.62 ft x 22.56 ft (normal load)
   169.80 m / 169.80 m x 20.00 m  x 6.88 m

Armament:
      6 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2 914 lbs / 1 322 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.94" / 100 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   137.80 ft / 42.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     25.59 ft / 7.80 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.51" / 140 mm   2.36" / 60 mm      4.72" / 120 mm
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 65 000 shp / 48 490 Kw = 29.84 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 304 tons

Complement:
   504 - 656

Cost:
   £1.920 million / $7.680 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 364 tons, 3.6 %
   Armour: 1 665 tons, 16.4 %
      - Belts: 706 tons, 7.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 334 tons, 3.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 585 tons, 5.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 40 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2 422 tons, 23.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 198 tons, 41.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 131 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 3.5 %
High fire control - 250t
Marconi - long range wireless - 25t
Reserve - 21t
Crew confort mesures - climat control - 18t
Magazine climat control - 18t
Damage control - Extra pump & generators - 18t


Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 849 lbs / 4 467 Kg = 26.5 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 15.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.430
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.49 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   21.03 ft / 6.41 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.18 ft / 5.24 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   17.18 ft / 5.24 m
      - Stern:      17.18 ft / 5.24 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.77 ft / 5.72 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 108.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 22 954 Square feet or 2 133 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 567 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.69
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Carthaginian]

Does Peru have a twin 9" mount? If so, use the 3 turret design with a twin midships.
That would give you the greater firepower and eliminate the recoil problems.

[Jefgte]

Another Shinchi Roca...


Possible with the  " 9 000 t light; 9 486 t standard; 10 214 t normal; 10 797 t full load" from 9 april.
3T2 in place of the 3T3.
(There is certainly no recoil problem)

;)

9 april  ???  ???  ???
this date is not unknow  ???  ???  ???

Oh yes...9 april 1940
Norway
Norge - Eidsvold - Blucher ...

[The Bushranger]

7500T -2T3x230, Peru Protected  Cruiser laid down 1918



7500T -2T3x230, Peru Protected  Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   7 500 t light; 7 928 t standard; 8 585 t normal; 9 111 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   553.66 ft / 551.18 ft x 59.06 ft x 20.79 ft (normal load)
   168.76 m / 168.00 m x 18.00 m  x 6.34 m

Armament:
      6 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x3 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread

It seems the Peruvian Admiralty Design Office has poached their crosstime counterparts from the WesWorld Philippines. This looks a lot like the 1930s "Antarctic Cruiser" design I had (it's a bit faster, mine was Treaty-limited to 24 knots). This means I like it.

Does this also mean we need to start looking out for Cigar Smoking Peruvians?  :D

[Jefgte]

It seems the Peruvian Admiralty Design Office has poached their crosstime counterparts from the WesWorld Philippines. This looks a lot like the 1930s "Antarctic Cruiser" design I had (it's a bit faster, mine was Treaty-limited to 24 knots). This means I like it.

Does this also mean we need to start looking out for Cigar Smoking Peruvians? 

Certainly not, This concept is inspired from the Panzerschiff, 2T3 front & aft + classical Peruvian secondary guns & superstructures (with typical red & white stripes funnels   :D ).
I have other studies with 2T3x400 - 2T3x340 - 2T3x275 - 2T3x230 - 2T3x152...


I don't find "Antartic Cruiser" in Wesworld Philipines...
With many respect from Wesworld Guys, I don't read very much this forum.


;)

[The Bushranger]

Still, it has my seal of approval.



Here's the ships in question...
The Dreaded Filipino Antarctic Battleships! :D

They didn't get built, but this did instead:



...then, of course, there was this.

[Jefgte]

Protected cruiser built around Autofagasta & LaPaz machinery.
19300+19300 = 38600SHP


4500T cruiser, Peru Protected Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   4 500 t light; 4 708 t standard; 5 184 t normal; 5 565 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   467.52 ft / 467.52 ft x 49.21 ft x 17.76 ft (normal load)
   142.50 m / 142.50 m x 15.00 m  x 5.41 m

Armament:
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 918 lbs / 417 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   12 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   341.21 ft / 104.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   124.67 ft / 38.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     1.64 ft / 0.50 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 38 600 shp / 28 796 Kw = 28.60 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 858 tons

Complement:
   305 - 397

Cost:
   £0.911 million / $3.642 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 115 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 772 tons, 14.9 %
      - Belts: 462 tons, 8.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 24 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 266 tons, 5.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 1 438 tons, 27.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 015 tons, 38.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 684 tons, 13.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 3.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5 049 lbs / 2 290 Kg = 46.8 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.16

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.444
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.28 ft / 4.96 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 14 605 Square feet or 1 357 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 407 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.59
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[miketr]

What is the date of the old machinery? 

[Jefgte]

What is the date of the old machinery?   

Autofagasta  - 1906
LaPaz - 1909

[Jefgte]

Protected cruiser built around Autofagasta & LaPaz 1906 machineries.
19300+19300 = 38600SHP

The speed is similar to Peruvian cruisers of that period - 27.1kts

Cuntisuyu -1918

5900T cruiser, Peru Protected Cruiser laid down 1918 (Engine 1906)

Displacement:
   5 900 t light; 6 147 t standard; 7 055 t normal; 7 781 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   478.35 ft / 478.35 ft x 53.15 ft x 20.07 ft (normal load)
   145.80 m / 145.80 m x 16.20 m  x 6.12 m

Armament:
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 926 lbs / 420 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   6 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3.15" / 80 mm   406.82 ft / 124.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     65.62 ft / 20.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     5.91 ft / 1.80 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 131 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 38 600 shp / 28 795 Kw = 27.17 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 634 tons

Complement:
   384 - 500

Cost:
   £1.309 million / $5.237 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 116 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 918 tons, 13.0 %
      - Belts: 503 tons, 7.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 25 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 365 tons, 5.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 25 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 2 506 tons, 35.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 210 tons, 31.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 154 tons, 16.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4 757 lbs / 2 158 Kg = 44.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 3.3 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 12.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.484
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Stern:      13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.26 ft / 4.65 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 130.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 16 697 Square feet or 1 551 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 403 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.37
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform