Destroyer Escorts

[ctwaterman]

Italia is currently finishing Research on ASW and Improved Mine and Anti Mine capabilities and is in need of a small relatively cheap versetile ship to fill these rolls.   This ship has lots of Misc weight available to do everything from harbor patrol and net duties to inshor patrol and mine laying



DDE 1913, Italia Destroyer Escort laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   600 t light; 620 t standard; 861 t normal; 1,054 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   278.38 ft / 274.50 ft x 27.50 ft x 8.96 ft (normal load)
   84.85 m / 83.67 m x 8.38 m  x 2.73 m

Armament:
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority forward
      12 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1910 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 30 lbs / 13 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,758 shp / 5,787 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 4,500nm at 16.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 434 tons

Complement:
   79 - 103

Cost:
   £0.074 million / $0.294 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 4 tons, 0.4 %
   Machinery: 309 tons, 35.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 197 tons, 22.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 261 tons, 30.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 10.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     454 lbs / 206 Kg = 33.7 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
   Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 89 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.05
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.79

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.446
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.98 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.57 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.24 ft / 5.56 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   11.61 ft / 3.54 m
      - Mid (35 %):      11.61 ft / 3.54 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.61 ft / 3.54 m
      - Stern:      11.61 ft / 3.54 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.14 ft / 3.70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 131.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,800 Square feet or 446 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 21 lbs/sq ft or 102 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.48
      - Longitudinal: 1.62
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

25T Wireless
25T Fire Control
45T Depth Charges or Mine Sweeping Gear.

[maddox]

I'm afraid these vessels have 1 sleight problem.

Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.48
      - Longitudinal: 1.62
      - Overall: 0.54

Maybe lowering freebord a bit, to increase that strenght.

[Borys]

Not enough rounds for the main guns - I suggest 250-350.
Destroyer escort does not seen right - maybe corvette? Patrol boat?
Borys

[P3D]

24kts is not fast enough for destroyer.

[Jefgte]

Here is one of my study of DE
1916-600t-28kts

600T-28kts, Peru DE1916 laid down 1916

Displacement:
   600 t light; 621 t standard; 687 t normal; 740 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   247.50 ft / 246.06 ft x 24.61 ft x 10.06 ft (normal load)
   75.44 m / 75.00 m x 7.50 m  x 3.07 m

Armament:
      2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      1 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1916 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline amidships
      2 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 49 lbs / 22 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   3 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 13 200 shp / 9 847 Kw = 28.02 kts
   Range 3 250nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 119 tons

Complement:
   66 - 87

Cost:
   £0.117 million / $0.468 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 6 tons, 0.9 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 0.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 324 tons, 47.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 187 tons, 27.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 87 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 11.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     193 lbs / 87 Kg = 8.7 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.395
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.69 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      10.50 ft / 3.20 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Stern:      9.19 ft / 2.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.37 ft / 3.47 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 77.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 717 Square feet or 345 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 62 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 23 lbs/sq ft or 113 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.54
      - Overall: 0.58
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Korpen]

And the intended mission for this class of ships is what?
As she seems undergunned to escort your larger warships, but too fast ( and undergunned ) to escort merchant ships.

[The Rock Doctor]

My thinking also...

[ctwaterman]

The Destroyer Escort is to be used for Mine Sweeping, and ASW work  It is not be used for Fleet Escort I have whole fleets of 750 and 1000 Ton DD and PC for that role....  I figure I need a decent speed to herd relectuant convoys around would be necessary sort of like a sheep dog *always running about the outside of the convoy*  The guns are sufficent to keep any submarine below the surface.

[Jefgte]

I consider them as half DD.

Their job is the close protection of the BBs, protect fleet tenders, harbours & coastal protection.
DD are biger & biger so small DD are not so expensive.
2x1500t DDs = 5x600t DEs


Jef

[P3D]

AFAIK 24kts is too slow for the destroyer rules.

[Korpen]

The Destroyer Escort is to be used for Mine Sweeping, and ASW work  It is not be used for Fleet Escort I have whole fleets of 750 and 1000 Ton DD and PC for that role....  I figure I need a decent speed to herd relectuant convoys around would be necessary sort of like a sheep dog *always running about the outside of the convoy*  The guns are sufficent to keep any submarine below the surface.

But with their limited firepower they are almost useless even for convoy protection, even a pair of 750-1000ton fleet DDs could butcher these ships by the bucket load, to say noting of what the in raiding role more common cruisers will do to them.
As for subs: none of your potential opponents in the Mediterranean have more then a very small number of subs, most have none, while they all got plenty of ships for surface raiding.

[ctwaterman]

I am projecting a need that doesnt quite exist yet but realistically I need a small expendible combatant for use as a mine sweeper, harbor patrol ship, ASW ship, and fisheries protection.   I needs to be small because it needs to be cheap as I need swarms of them.

2 or 3 of these ships on convoys between say Sicily and North Africa should be able to at least keep the Submarines submerged while the large warships do the important things like keeping the enemy cruisers away.

I have a question realistically does anyone expect to have enough ships to actually provide a heavy escort on every convoy they would have to form to convoy there ships.   Or enough raiders to intercept even a few of those Convoys???  I mean some of these Battle Cruiser and Cruiser Raiders people are building.  I cannot realistically afford to build a single ship to counter them. 

[Korpen]

I was not thinking about the 9000ton+ armoured cruisers people have started building, but about more common 3-4000ton cruisers that are quite common. Apart from the problems P3D pointed out, theses ships have nothing to pit against even such a modest ship. In fact I think ramming would be their main weapon against any for of surface warship.

Also, FC is wasted on just two peashooters.

[Tanthalas]

I am projecting a need that doesnt quite exist yet but realistically I need a small expendible combatant for use as a mine sweeper, harbor patrol ship, ASW ship, and fisheries protection.   I needs to be small because it needs to be cheap as I need swarms of them.

2 or 3 of these ships on convoys between say Sicily and North Africa should be able to at least keep the Submarines submerged while the large warships do the important things like keeping the enemy cruisers away.

I have a question realistically does anyone expect to have enough ships to actually provide a heavy escort on every convoy they would have to form to convoy there ships.   Or enough raiders to intercept even a few of those Convoys???  I mean some of these Battle Cruiser and Cruiser Raiders people are building.  I cannot realistically afford to build a single ship to counter them. 

You find yourself in much the situation I was trying to figure out.  Either build good or build numbers, I was atempting to acomplish both by building swarms of 1k ton dds and a few capable bbs

[P3D]

Italy has about the largest destroyer fleet in the Med to guarantee traffic between Italy and Libya. Convoys to East Africa, with the Suez canal and the narrow Red Sea, would be known to any opponent with at least mediocre naval intel, so restricted to military supply/reinforcement/essentials.

The capital ships+destroyers and almost nothing between appears to be popular.