"Can I Play With Madness?"

[Guinness]

In a lot of cases though, that's going to make the fish rather wet too. I guess it depends on where you put them. On your example, they are probably far enough aft to stay pretty dry, but on smaller ships, it would be more difficult.

Another thing that has been done is to put shields on them. We don't have a systematic way to deal with the weight of that sort of thing using SS2 right now though.

[P3D]

One main caliber hit's unlikely to wipe out the entire bank of fish - they're over a wide area.  If it does, the ship's probably screwed anyway.

I am rather concerned about hits on the hull, which will damage the machinery and thus reduce speed significantly.

[The Rock Doctor]

If I build them, I'd be concerned about that as well - one of the arguments for using destroyers instead.

[maddox]

Speed is armor would be the catchphraze for the proponents.

[Talos]

I fiddled with this a bit to suit more of Egypt's needs.

Unarmored cruiser, Egypt Cruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   4,599 t light; 4,766 t standard; 5,249 t normal; 5,636 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   484.40 ft / 480.00 ft x 47.57 ft x 17.88 ft (normal load)
   147.64 m / 146.30 m x 14.50 m  x 5.45 m

Armament:
      5 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 83.72lbs / 37.97kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority forward
      2 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm guns in single mounts, 8.39lbs / 3.81kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 0.31" / 7.9 mm guns in single mounts, 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 435 lbs / 198 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      0.98" / 25 mm
   2nd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 60,418 shp / 45,071 Kw = 32.00 kts
   Range 8,700nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 870 tons

Complement:
   307 - 400

Cost:
   £0.593 million / $2.373 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 54 tons, 1.0 %
   Armour: 26 tons, 0.5 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 26 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 2,409 tons, 45.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,910 tons, 36.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 650 tons, 12.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 3.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,496 lbs / 1,132 Kg = 29.8 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.450
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.09 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.93 ft / 7.60 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (41 %):      21.00 ft / 6.40 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Stern:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16.67 ft / 5.08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 160.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,565 Square feet or 1,353 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 76 lbs/sq ft or 371 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.61
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Ithekro]

It is a good thing that most ships that would need to worry about these ships have the firepower to engage them at a range greater than it can launch torpedoes effectively.

However in a night action or low viability, these things would be a terror.  Good thing the Caribbean has good viability most of the time.....

[The Rock Doctor]

We have nightfall in the Caribbean, too.

Modified Madness looks pretty similar to Original Madness.  I assume you were looking to get an even 200 t of miscellaneous weight?

[Talos]

I dropped half the torpedoes, added another gun, added ~20 tons misc weight for tropicalization, that sort of thing. I didn't need the whole 24 tubes, not for the jobs I see for this ship.

[The Rock Doctor]

I overlooked the extra gun.  Tropicalization is fine, but bear in mind that GC is equatorial - the ships are presumably designed for hot climates.

[Talos]

Hmm, good point, good point. I could probably scale back some of that then. It was intended to represent extra ventilation ducts and fans and such to improve conditions in the ship.

[The Rock Doctor]

Keep the weight as it is, and use 25 t for command facilities if it is viewed as a destroyer leader.

[Talos]

Good idea! That's exactly what it's to be used as.

[P3D]

Perfect for the Red Sea I'd say.

[Borys]

Speed costs a lot ... my 4000 tonne cruisers are better (to my eyes at least) - for 5 knots less I have same number of guns, yet of heavier calibre, and am decently armoured to boot.

Borys

[Guinness]

At 27 knots though, a cruiser can't run from the current generation of battlecruisers, and I suspect will have a very thin margin soon on legitimate fast battleships. If it's the job of a cruiser to slug it out with opponents with much larger main batteries, I guess that's ok. If, on the other hand, the job of a 4000 ton cruiser is scouting, etc. not being able to use speed to stay out of the lethal envelope of superior ships' guns seems like a bad idea to me.