Destroyer Escorts

[Borys]

With Tunis in Italian hands, I believe there exists the contingency route Palermo-Tunis, and from there by 1m (3'3") gauge rail to Tripolis. Thus less need for running past Malta.
Borys

[ctwaterman]

I was not thinking about the 9000ton+ armoured cruisers people have started building, but about more common 3-4000ton cruisers that are quite common. Apart from the problems P3D pointed out, theses ships have nothing to pit against even such a modest ship. In fact I think ramming would be their main weapon against any for of surface warship.

Also, FC is wasted on just two peashooters.

I admit the FC was a well I can actually fit it on them what do you know catagory.  I guess I could just as easily turn that in a triple 21" Torpedo Mount.....?????

I  never intend these ships for use in areas where Cruisers can run rampant against them.  But costal convoys along the Red Sea, North Africa, and in the Adriatic and Tyrrhenian Seas they could work some where my surface ships can control the choke points to keep major enemy warships out.... 

Realistically if I have to dedicate entire flotilla of 1000 Ton DD each with one two of my New 2999 Tond DD Leader Cruisers to protecting each of these area and a flottila of screen each of my Cruiser Squadrons and Each of my Battle Squadron [Not Plural] then Im going to go broke....  I have to come up with a compromise design that can do more than one thing the things I need are harbor defense craft againt MTB and Sub attack, Inshore Mine Sweeping, and if it can do a little convoy escort now and again BONUS.

[Jefgte]

Always 600t but more powerfull

600T, Peru 1914-DE laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   600 t light; 630 t standard; 758 t normal; 861 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   227.84 ft / 226.38 ft x 26.64 ft x 10.63 ft (normal load)
   69.45 m / 69.00 m x 8.12 m  x 3.24 m

Armament:
      2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      1 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing gun in deck mount
     on centreline amidships
      2 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 158 lbs / 72 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 160
   3 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 11 000 shp / 8 206 Kw = 25.92 kts
   Range 3 500nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 231 tons

Complement:
   71 - 93

Cost:
   £0.105 million / $0.419 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 20 tons, 2.6 %
   Armour: 6 tons, 0.7 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 320 tons, 42.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 195 tons, 25.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 159 tons, 20.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 7.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     238 lbs / 108 Kg = 4.5 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 11.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.414
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.05 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 67 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 64
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.73 ft / 5.10 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   13.45 ft / 4.10 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.15 ft / 3.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Stern:      9.19 ft / 2.80 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.69 ft / 3.56 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 165.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 3 745 Square feet or 348 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 69 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 123 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 2.88
      - Overall: 0.59
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Korpen]

I admit the FC was a well I can actually fit it on them what do you know catagory.  I guess I could just as easily turn that in a triple 21" Torpedo Mount.....?????

Or more (or/and larger) guns. My rule of thumb is that if the FC weigh more then the guns it is intended for, it is not worth getting.

I  never intend these ships for use in areas where Cruisers can run rampant against them.  But costal convoys along the Red Sea, North Africa, and in the Adriatic and Tyrrhenian Seas they could work some where my surface ships can control the choke points to keep major enemy warships out.... 

Considering that at least two potential opponent have bases IN the Adriatic (the same goes for the red sea), I do not think that argument makes allot of sense.

Realistically if I have to dedicate entire flotilla of 1000 Ton DD each with one two of my New 2999 Tond DD Leader Cruisers to protecting each of these area and a flottila of screen each of my Cruiser Squadrons and Each of my Battle Squadron [Not Plural] then Im going to go broke....  I have to come up with a compromise design that can do more than one thing the things I need are harbor defense craft againt MTB and Sub attack, Inshore Mine Sweeping, and if it can do a little convoy escort now and again BONUS.

Then why call in an destroyer escort?
If you upgun her (at the loss of speed) you would have ship that would be better at the tasks you have outlined.

EDIT: Oh, and cut range, 40% fuel at max displacement is excessive, and not need full for a sip intended for mainly costal operations.

[Korpen]

Juust some food for thought.
The belt covers the engine spaces, but not the magazines. It should be enogh to keep 75mm HE and smaller shells out of the engineering spaces.
Range is reduced compared to your suggestion, but still good.
Firepower is several times better.
Payload identical.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1912

Displacement:
   600 t light; 627 t standard; 822 t normal; 978 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   196,85 ft / 196,85 ft x 29,53 ft x 8,20 ft (normal load)
   60,00 m / 60,00 m x 9,00 m  x 2,50 m

Armament:
      3 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft
   Weight of broadside 92 lbs / 42 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm     81,04 ft / 24,70 m   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 63 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1,97" / 50 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 0,39" / 10 mm, Conning tower: 2,76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3 000 shp / 2 238 Kw = 17,84 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 351 tons

Complement:
   76 - 99

Cost:
   £0,047 million / $0,189 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 11 tons, 1,4 %
   Armour: 100 tons, 12,1 %
      - Belts: 51 tons, 6,2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
      - Armament: 12 tons, 1,5 %
      - Armour Deck: 31 tons, 3,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0,6 %
   Machinery: 120 tons, 14,6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 275 tons, 33,5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 222 tons, 27,0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 94 tons, 11,4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1 721 lbs / 780 Kg = 56,4 x 3,9 " / 100 mm shells or 0,9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,22
   Metacentric height 1,2 ft / 0,4 m
   Roll period: 11,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,15
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,52

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,603
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14,03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
      - Mid (60 %):      14,76 ft / 4,50 m (6,56 ft / 2,00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   6,56 ft / 2,00 m
      - Stern:      6,56 ft / 2,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   11,61 ft / 3,54 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71,5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124,1 %
   Waterplane Area: 4 265 Square feet or 396 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 157 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 189 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,87
      - Longitudinal: 3,51
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Remove the armour and one can get the same capabillity at less then 500 ton.
She is also cheaper as she do not use DD rules.

[Jefgte]

Why not 1000t DE ?

Close BBs protection against enemy TBs
All escort job
... a Defender


1000T, Peru DE Defender laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   1 000 t light; 1 059 t standard; 1 297 t normal; 1 486 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   319.85 ft / 318.24 ft x 33.50 ft x 10.28 ft (normal load)
   97.49 m / 97.00 m x 10.21 m  x 3.13 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, 1 raised mount
      2 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1914 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      2 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 324 lbs / 147 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 170
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 16 000 shp / 11 936 Kw = 27.42 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 427 tons

Complement:
   107 - 140

Cost:
   £0.181 million / $0.723 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 41 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 13 tons, 1.0 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 13 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 521 tons, 40.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 335 tons, 25.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 296 tons, 22.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 6.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     451 lbs / 205 Kg = 8.6 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.43
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 10.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.414
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
      - Stern:      10.50 ft / 3.20 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.69 ft / 3.87 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 161.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 6 619 Square feet or 615 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 76 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 142 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.23
      - Overall: 0.54
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[ctwaterman]

Ok I think everyone is caught up in the name should I call this a Frigate or a Corvette instead.  It will not be used to escort BB against TB attack that is a job for Protected Cruisers or the newly evolving concept of Light Cruisers along with the Fleet Destroyers.

So I will need to reclassify my ships as follows

Costal Destroyers, MTB, Minesweepers, and Corvettes
Fleet Destroyers and Destroyer Leaders
Protected Cruisers and Light Cruisers
Armored Cruiser and Battle Cruisers
Pre Dreadnaughts BB
Semi Dreadnaughts BB
Dreadnaught BB

[The Rock Doctor]

Name aside - I'd really split up the functions. 

Minesweeping, defensive minelaying, harbour patrols, and coastal ASW could be done with a small, slowish (~16-18 knots) ship built to merchantile standards.

Convoy defence and perhaps offensive minelaying I'd leave to older destroyers...

[Jefgte]

.With 1500t DD technos & 1916 engines technos.

Strong Defender

1500t, Peru DE Defender laid down 1918 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   1 500 t light; 1 584 t standard; 1 839 t normal; 2 042 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   391.97 ft / 390.42 ft x 35.50 ft x 11.61 ft (normal load)
   119.47 m / 119.00 m x 10.82 m  x 3.54 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 4.00lbs / 1.81kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 430 lbs / 195 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 180
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.18" / 30 mm   367.45 ft / 112.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 145 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25 600 shp / 19 097 Kw = 30.05 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 458 tons

Complement:
   139 - 182

Cost:
   £0.410 million / $1.641 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 54 tons, 2.9 %
   Armour: 153 tons, 8.3 %
      - Belts: 135 tons, 7.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 18 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 768 tons, 41.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 425 tons, 23.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 339 tons, 18.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 5.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     517 lbs / 235 Kg = 9.8 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
   Roll period: 11.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
   Block coefficient: 0.400
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.76 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Forecastle (19 %):   13.78 ft / 4.20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      10.50 ft / 3.20 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   9.84 ft / 3.00 m (10.50 ft / 3.20 m before break)
      - Stern:      9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 163.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 8 531 Square feet or 793 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 71 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 150 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.66
      - Overall: 0.52
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform