El Acorazado Concreto

[The Rock Doctor]

The naval fort rules seem to be a recurring question...I'll think on this point.

[miketr]

Directly from the rules.

The fortress have the Artillery rating of three times the corresponding level Infantry corps.

I would say, depending on guns installed - brandnew 1913 guns or  Vanguarded 1895 guns- the firepower of the fortress against naval targets is rated.
If those guns are put against infantry/cavalery/special forces with HE or even shrapnell the only thing that counts is range.
A 1895 gun/shell combo with 200 kg of Shrapnell of a 1913 gun/shell with 220 kg of shrapnell....

The thing is we are providing the guns from the SS.  I am not sure I like either of the answers put forward.

Michael

[The Rock Doctor]

5 inch or higher calibre guns installed as Coastal Defence are to be Springsharped as gun, Turret and Barbette ONLY, with 0 freeboard. Double the BP cost to account for the seel going into the barbette/magazine, and installation cost would be equal to the cost of the turret. For upkeep, they are treated like naval units, based on the cost of the turret.

Quoted from the rules.

Hand-loaded guns don't need to be simmed in turrets, really.  Otherwise, this seems pertinent.  So:

1.  Sim the guns and their armor; multiply the total weight by two (to capture barbette/hoist/magazine weight) and that's the BP cost.

2.  Cash cost is (as per as our ship construction rules) double the BP cost.

So that's the guns, and we should continue to sim naval fortification ordnance in this manner.

As to the rest of the place - I agree with P3D that we haven't considered concrete as needing BP; on the other hand, we've not built concrete battleships of this nature, either, and there ought to be some cost for something this elaborate. 

So I think Maddox is on the right course as a compromise.  My suggestion is to take the $/BP cost of an Advanced Fortress and halve it, since it's a smaller installation.  Construction time of three years seems in line with the historical time required for Fort Drum.

So, the cost would be:

Cost of battery + (0.5 * Cost of Advanced Fort)

How's that sound to folks?

[Korpen]

5 inch or higher calibre guns installed as Coastal Defence are to be Springsharped as gun, Turret and Barbette ONLY, with 0 freeboard. Double the BP cost to account for the seel going into the barbette/magazine, and installation cost would be equal to the cost of the turret. For upkeep, they are treated like naval units, based on the cost of the turret.

Quoted from the rules.

Hand-loaded guns don't need to be simmed in turrets, really.  Otherwise, this seems pertinent.  So:

1.  Sim the guns and their armor; multiply the total weight by two (to capture barbette/hoist/magazine weight) and that's the BP cost.

2.  Cash cost is (as per as our ship construction rules) double the BP cost.

So that's the guns, and we should continue to sim naval fortification ordnance in this manner.

As to the rest of the place - I agree with P3D that we haven't considered concrete as needing BP; on the other hand, we've not built concrete battleships of this nature, either, and there ought to be some cost for something this elaborate. 

So I think Maddox is on the right course as a compromise.  My suggestion is to take the $/BP cost of an Advanced Fortress and halve it, since it's a smaller installation.  Construction time of three years seems in line with the historical time required for Fort Drum.

So, the cost would be:

Cost of battery + (0.5 * Cost of Advanced Fort)

How's that sound to folks?

Sounds odd IMO. As the "forts" we have here is massive to say the least. With a garrison in the tens of thousands a "fort" really are installations such as the defences of Verdun or twice the size of Boden (10-20 large artillery forts, about as many armed supporting fortifications, and a few hundred smaller bunkers), much more massive then a relatively small concrete battleship. 

[The Rock Doctor]

So should the Concrete Battleship be less expensive, or should the big multi-corps fortifications be more expensive?

[miketr]

Well a MultiCorps forts are hugely expensive...  For an advanced Level 3 fort...

Advanced   $20   2.25  BP = $60 and 6.75 BP thats real money.  The result is a great fortress center like Verdun, Liège, Metz, Przemy?l, with a dozen or more forts around the city and in depth.  Each fort can support those near it and must be reduced in turn. The result is large butchers bill to take it by storm or multimonth long siege to starve out the defenders (Liège fell because it hadn't been updated in 20 years and super heavy siege artillery was used on it). 

The Concrete BB would ONE of these sub forts; perhaps two it is a great deal of Concrete.  Verdun had 18 or 24 sub forts in two rings. 


Michael