Iberia BB Design Study

miketr · September 09, 2008, 08:37:01 AM

This is me killing time by doing a straight upgrade of the 1912 BB. Later in the series I will do an upgrade the guns but I wanted to start with the 13" guns as in the 1912 Design as a point of comparison.

From the ship buiding talks I believe the secondaries are legal but would be greatful if one of the powers that be confirm that.

Michael

QuoteBB-1917, Iberia Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   28,163 t light; 29,663 t standard; 32,593 t normal; 34,936 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   650.00 ft / 650.00 ft x 100.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   198.12 m / 198.12 m x 30.48 m x 8.23 m

Armament:
12 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1,096.51lbs / 497.37kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 14,939 lbs / 6,776 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   230.00 ft / 70.10 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   26.00 ft / 7.92 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   9.00" / 229 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm     -           -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm     -           -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 48,000 shp / 35,808 Kw = 22.54 kts
   Range 17,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,273 tons (67% coal)

Complement:
   1,212 - 1,576

Cost:
   £5.129 million / $20.516 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,867 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 11,149 tons, 34.2 %
     - Belts: 4,243 tons, 13.0 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 606 tons, 1.9 %
     - Armament: 3,251 tons, 10.0 %
     - Armour Deck: 2,764 tons, 8.5 %
     - Conning Tower: 286 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,904 tons, 5.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,642 tons, 38.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,430 tons, 13.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     48,264 lbs / 21,892 Kg = 44.0 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 7.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.37

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.50 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
     - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Stern:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Average freeboard:   20.64 ft / 6.29 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 49,794 Square feet or 4,626 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 190 lbs/sq ft or 930 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.29
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The Rock Doctor · September 09, 2008, 08:42:31 AM

If you have the 1910 CL/CP tech, the secondary arrangement is valid.

miketr · September 09, 2008, 08:47:05 AM

Nod...

miketr · September 09, 2008, 08:51:53 AM

The Max Firepower that I could research.... 13"L40 -> 15"L40

Posted correct design...

QuoteBB-1917-B, Iberia Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   28,150 t light; 29,663 t standard; 32,593 t normal; 34,936 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   650.00 ft / 650.00 ft x 100.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   198.12 m / 198.12 m x 30.48 m x 8.23 m

Armament:
8 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,674.25lbs / 759.43kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 15,175 lbs / 6,883 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   230.00 ft / 70.10 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   26.00 ft / 7.92 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   9.00" / 229 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm     -           -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm     -           -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 48,000 shp / 35,808 Kw = 22.54 kts
   Range 17,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,273 tons (67% coal)

Complement:
   1,212 - 1,576

Cost:
   £5.173 million / $20.693 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,897 tons, 5.8 %
   Armour: 10,982 tons, 33.7 %
     - Belts: 4,243 tons, 13.0 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 606 tons, 1.9 %
     - Armament: 3,084 tons, 9.5 %
     - Armour Deck: 2,764 tons, 8.5 %
     - Conning Tower: 286 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,904 tons, 5.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,667 tons, 38.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,443 tons, 13.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 700 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     47,627 lbs / 21,603 Kg = 28.4 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 7.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.68
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.37

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.50 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
     - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Stern:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Average freeboard:   20.64 ft / 6.29 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 49,794 Square feet or 4,626 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 191 lbs/sq ft or 932 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The Rock Doctor · September 09, 2008, 09:01:11 AM

I get the impression you meant to post a 15" design the second time around...

Jefgte · September 09, 2008, 09:09:42 AM

"...
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 48,000 shp / 35,808 Kw = 22.54 kts
Range 17,000nm at 10.00 kts
..."

Are you sure of your machinery infos?
- 22.5kts is the speed of your BBs squadron...
- What a great range !!!

Jef ;)

miketr · September 09, 2008, 09:23:29 AM

Rockdoctor I reposted the correct design...

Jefgte I am going to keep using the 10 knots for figuring range so I can better determine fleet range. So its not as impressive as it sounds. She has a range of 11,500nm @ 12 knots, 7,000 nm @ 15 knots, 4,500nm @ 18 knots & 2,500nm @ 22.5 knots.

Michael

miketr · September 11, 2008, 08:58:26 AM

QuoteBB-1917-C, Iberia Battleship laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   27,923 t light; 29,419 t standard; 32,593 t normal; 35,132 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   650.00 ft / 650.00 ft x 100.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
   198.12 m / 198.12 m x 30.48 m x 8.23 m

Armament:
10 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (5x2 guns), 1,308.20lbs / 593.39kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 14,863 lbs / 6,742 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
- Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   230.00 ft / 70.10 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   26.00 ft / 7.92 m

- Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.0" / 330 mm   9.00" / 229 mm      13.0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm     -           -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm     -           -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm     -           -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 13.00" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 48,000 shp / 35,808 Kw = 22.54 kts
   Range 18,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,712 tons (67% coal)

Complement:
   1,212 - 1,576

Cost:
   £5.099 million / $20.397 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,858 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 11,263 tons, 34.6 %
     - Belts: 4,243 tons, 13.0 %
     - Torpedo bulkhead: 606 tons, 1.9 %
     - Armament: 3,365 tons, 10.3 %
     - Armour Deck: 2,764 tons, 8.5 %
     - Conning Tower: 286 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1,904 tons, 5.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,298 tons, 37.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,669 tons, 14.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     48,509 lbs / 22,003 Kg = 37.1 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 7.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.38

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.50 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
     - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
     - Forecastle (20 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
     - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Stern:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
     - Average freeboard:   20.64 ft / 6.29 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 155.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 49,794 Square feet or 4,626 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 185 lbs/sq ft or 904 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

miketr · September 11, 2008, 09:01:24 AM

Gun on the designs...

330mmL45 Weight of broadside 14,939 lbs / 6,776 kg
350mmL45 Weight of broadside 14,863 lbs / 6,742 kg
380mmL40 Weight of broadside 15,175 lbs / 6,883 kg

Michael

The Rock Doctor · September 12, 2008, 06:45:06 AM

GC's Furioso class has 350/45 guns of Dutch origin as their main battery; operating in tandem with Iberian BBs carrying Iberian 350/45 guns would allow a fairly homogenous offensive capability.

Jefgte · September 12, 2008, 07:06:37 AM

Did you hope that Peru use also 350/45 in place of 340/45 cal 1908 544Kg - 1200.00lbs

Did T3x350 exist ?
-------------------------

Always 28000t max...

Jef ;)

The Rock Doctor · September 12, 2008, 07:14:33 AM

Peru could probably introduce the Iberian gun with only modest changes to its own designs. As it is, the 340/45 is probably not greatly different in performance...

Jefgte · September 12, 2008, 07:19:17 AM

The advantage is the standardisation of the shells for Alianza

ex;
- GC, NUS (?) & Peruvian BBs could be reamunitioned in Spain
- Iberian BBs could be reamunitioned in PagoPago

Jef ;)

The Rock Doctor · September 12, 2008, 07:31:08 AM

If the guns use similar ammunition, yes - but I'm not sure that they do.

In fact, I'll be ignorant and suggest I'm not even sure if shells of the same weight, for different guns of similar bore/caliber, are interchangable - but I'm happy to be enlightened by you folks.

ctwaterman · September 12, 2008, 07:39:06 AM

The Answer to the best of my Knowledge is that even the USN and RN never tried to standardize their 14"/45 and 14"/50 rounds. They were just different and its enough of a difference to throw off your gunnery tables alot and making new gunnery charts sometimes takes longer then making the guns. :)