CSA Speculative Design Studies

[Guinness]

Ok, a wee bit more tinkering with the 13.5" version:

1914 BC 13.5 Inch, CSA Battlecruisers laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   24,830 t light; 26,288 t standard; 28,093 t normal; 29,536 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   714.00 ft / 690.00 ft x 96.00 ft x 29.99 ft (normal load)
   217.63 m / 210.31 m x 29.26 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
     8 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,500.00lbs / 680.39kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
     4 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.00lbs / 0.45kg shells, 1914 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     10 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (5x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 13,209 lbs / 5,992 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   438.00 ft / 133.50 m   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   252.00 ft / 76.81 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   438.00 ft / 133.50 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   438.00 ft / 133.50 m   24.00 ft / 7.32 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   7.00" / 178 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   3rd:         -      1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:         -      1.00" / 25 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 80,000 shp / 59,680 Kw = 27.02 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,249 tons

Complement:
   1,084 - 1,410

Cost:
   £3.169 million / $12.676 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,398 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 9,227 tons, 32.8 %
      - Belts: 3,961 tons, 14.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 583 tons, 2.1 %
      - Armament: 2,026 tons, 7.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,438 tons, 8.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 219 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,190 tons, 11.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,615 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,262 tons, 11.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33,839 lbs / 15,349 Kg = 27.5 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 5.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.495
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.19 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.27 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.77 degrees
   Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (17 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (45 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.52 ft / 5.64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 43,934 Square feet or 4,082 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 173 lbs/sq ft or 845 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc Weights:
250 t Fire Control
25 t Marconi
10 t Marconi
65 t Flag Facilities
50 t Reserve

Range at 10 knots: 11690nm
Range at 15 knots: 4900nm
Range at 20 knots: 2457nm
Range at max speed: 1091nm


Immunity zone: Approx 16,000 to 19,500 yards (againsts own guns)

[Korpen]

For comparison the

1914 BC 13.5 Inch, CSA Battlecruisers laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   24,830 t light; 26,288 t standard; 28,093 t normal; 29,536 t full load


Immunity zone: Approx 16,000 to 19,500 yards (againsts own guns)

For comparison its immunity zone against a Dutch/Gran Colombian 35cm shell would be from 17km to about 19km. :)

[Guinness]

Right, for the Dutch 350mm gun. Against the 305mms of the Warrior class though, this ship should be immune anywhere outside 15,900 yards (at least according to my amateur NAaB fiddlings).

Actually, against the 305mm gun on the Warrior, this ship could have a thinner deck (say around 2.5") and thicker belt and get an even wider immunity zone, but then it likely would have no immunity against the 350mm gun, and might as well have much thinner armor and bigger guns.

[Korpen]

Right, for the Dutch 350mm gun. Against the 305mms of the Warrior class though, this ship should be immune anywhere outside 15,900 yards (at least according to my amateur NAaB fiddlings).

Actually, against the 305mm gun on the Warrior, this ship could have a thinner deck (say around 2.5") and thicker belt and get an even wider immunity zone, but then it likely would have no immunity against the 350mm gun, and might as well have much thinner armor and bigger guns.

Well realistically immunity zones over 140-150hm is largely irrelevant, as there is highly unlikely there will be more then the odd hit at those ranges.

[Guinness]

Well realistically immunity zones over 140-150hm is largely irrelevant, as there is highly unlikely there will be more then the odd hit at those ranges.

Well, the entire Battle of Crete during the last war took place at or beyond 14,000 yards. So Confederate designers are trying to incorporate that experience here, I think.

[Guinness]

Ok, though this design might find it's way into the Confederate never-were files, here it is a bit more refined. I'm looking for a little validation of the hull and armor scheme, so here's a very early rendering. One thing I should note immediately is the upper belt comes straight up to the top deck along it's length. I calculated roughly the area covered by it, and averaged it by it's length to get the upper belt height value (since it wouldn't be purely rectangular) I really don't know if that works for simulation purposes though...



Ling to view at full resolution: http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm18/mmichael453/1914%20BC/hull.png

and the current SS:

1914 BC 13.5 Inch long raised forcecastle, CSA Battlecruisers laid down 1914 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   25,345 t light; 26,814 t standard; 28,650 t normal; 30,118 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 708.00 ft x 96.00 ft x 29.74 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 215.80 m x 29.26 m  x 9.07 m

Armament:
      8 - 13.50" / 343 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,500.00lbs / 680.39kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1914 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.00lbs / 0.45kg shells, 1914 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      12 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1914 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 5 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 13,210 lbs / 5,992 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.5" / 292 mm   441.00 ft / 134.42 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   267.00 ft / 81.38 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   401.00 ft / 122.22 m   10.60 ft / 3.23 m
     Main Belt covers 96 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   441.00 ft / 134.42 m   32.00 ft / 9.75 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      11.5" / 292 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm   4.00" / 102 mm            -
   3rd:         -      1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:         -      1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 80,000 shp / 59,680 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,305 tons

Complement:
   1,100 - 1,431

Cost:
   £3.192 million / $12.768 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,398 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 9,548 tons, 33.3 %
      - Belts: 3,990 tons, 13.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 783 tons, 2.7 %
      - Armament: 2,049 tons, 7.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,504 tons, 8.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 222 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,190 tons, 11.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,809 tons, 37.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,305 tons, 11.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35,587 lbs / 16,142 Kg = 28.9 x 13.5 " / 343 mm shells or 5.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.496
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.38 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.61 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23.43 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (55 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m (11.50 ft / 3.51 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      15.50 ft / 4.72 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.46 ft / 5.63 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 45,121 Square feet or 4,192 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 172 lbs/sq ft or 840 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.19
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weights:
250 t Fire Control
25 t Marconi
10 t Marconi
65 t Flag Facilities
50 t Reserve

Range at 10 knots: 11700nm
Range at 15 knots: 4950nm
Range at 20 knots: 2500nm
Range at max speed: 1125nm


Immunity zone: Approx 16,400 to 20,000 yards (againsts own guns)

[Guinness]

Which would you build?

1915 BB 8 guns, CSA Battleship laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   28,500 t light; 30,598 t standard; 32,255 t normal; 33,581 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   650.00 ft / 635.00 ft x 100.50 ft x 29.00 ft (normal load)
   198.12 m / 193.55 m x 30.63 m  x 8.84 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 17,212 lbs / 7,807 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.5" / 343 mm   413.00 ft / 125.88 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   413.00 ft / 125.88 m   36.00 ft / 10.97 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      13.5" / 343 mm
   2nd:   1.50" / 38 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.50" / 38 mm

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 15.00" / 381 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 40,000 shp / 29,840 Kw = 21.58 kts
   Range 6,650nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,983 tons

Complement:
   1,203 - 1,564

Cost:
   £4.043 million / $16.170 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,855 tons, 5.8 %
   Armour: 11,697 tons, 36.3 %
      - Belts: 3,912 tons, 12.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,100 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armament: 2,871 tons, 8.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,486 tons, 10.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 327 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,595 tons, 4.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,890 tons, 40.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,755 tons, 11.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 463 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     50,276 lbs / 22,805 Kg = 29.8 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 9.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 17.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.87
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.610
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.32 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.20 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27.35 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (67 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.11 ft / 6.43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 47,113 Square feet or 4,377 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 200 lbs/sq ft or 978 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.63
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Misc Weights:
250 t Fire Control
25 t Marconi
25 t Marconi
50 t Flag Facilities
113 t Reserve

or

1915 BB 10 guns, CSA Battleship laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   32,700 t light; 35,198 t standard; 36,779 t normal; 38,043 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   690.00 ft / 675.00 ft x 106.50 ft x 29.50 ft (normal load)
   210.31 m / 205.74 m x 32.46 m  x 8.99 m

Armament:
      10 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4 mounts), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1915 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 21,212 lbs / 9,622 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 148

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.5" / 343 mm   440.00 ft / 134.11 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   440.00 ft / 134.11 m   36.00 ft / 10.97 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      13.5" / 343 mm
   2nd:   1.50" / 38 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.50" / 38 mm

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 15.00" / 381 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 43,000 shp / 32,078 Kw = 21.61 kts
   Range 5,700nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,845 tons

Complement:
   1,327 - 1,726

Cost:
   £4.796 million / $19.185 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,277 tons, 6.2 %
   Armour: 13,115 tons, 35.7 %
      - Belts: 4,163 tons, 11.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,172 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armament: 3,506 tons, 9.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,916 tons, 10.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 357 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,715 tons, 4.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,174 tons, 41.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,079 tons, 11.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 419 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     55,079 lbs / 24,983 Kg = 32.6 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 9.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.84
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.43

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.607
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.34 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27.35 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.00 ft / 8.84 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (67 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Stern:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.11 ft / 6.43 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 52,922 Square feet or 4,917 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 214 lbs/sq ft or 1,044 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.50
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weights:
250 t Fire Control
25 t Marconi
25 t Marconi
50 t Flag Facilities
69 t Reserve

[Borys]

eight gun version - those two guns cost you 4200 tonnes. 2100 per barrel ...

[Sachmle]

eight gun version - those two guns cost you 4200 tonnes. 2100 per barrel ...

I second Borys' opinion on this one. Also 150 and 148 shells respectively is a LOT of shells, RN captial ships in WWI only carried 90-100 shells.

[Guinness]

I think the QE's had closer to 150 per gun. The CSA's Oklahomas carry 100 per gun.

These are early design studies, though. There's a chance some of that weight could get turned into fuel or speed.

I've got a 12 gun version at 35,000 odd tons too, but it's starting to sacrifice stability as well.

1916 engine tech, of course, would have some bearing on things too.

[Guinness]

One more next gen capital ship concept: BCs and BBs merge...

1916 BB Fast, CSA Battleship laid down 1916

Displacement:
   33,100 t light; 34,948 t standard; 36,702 t normal; 38,105 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.00 ft / 708.00 ft x 102.50 ft x 29.70 ft (normal load)
   219.76 m / 215.80 m x 31.24 m  x 9.05 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,000.00lbs / 907.18kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.50" / 140 mm guns (8x2 guns), 75.00lbs / 34.02kg shells, 1916 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      6 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1916 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1916 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 17,218 lbs / 7,810 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 115

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.5" / 343 mm   460.00 ft / 140.21 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   460.00 ft / 140.21 m   32.00 ft / 9.75 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      13.5" / 343 mm
   2nd:   1.50" / 38 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.50" / 38 mm

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 15.00" / 381 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 98,000 shp / 73,108 Kw = 27.01 kts
   Range 7,555nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,157 tons

Complement:
   1,325 - 1,723

Cost:
   £5.283 million / $21.134 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,856 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 12,581 tons, 34.3 %
      - Belts: 4,311 tons, 11.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,089 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armament: 2,911 tons, 7.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,913 tons, 10.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 357 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 3,651 tons, 9.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,572 tons, 39.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,603 tons, 9.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 439 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     50,377 lbs / 22,851 Kg = 29.9 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 7.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 17.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.596
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.91 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.61 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23.43 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Mid (67 %):      23.00 ft / 7.01 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.32 ft / 6.80 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 52,878 Square feet or 4,913 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 200 lbs/sq ft or 975 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.40
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weights:
250 t Fire Control
25 t Marconi
25 t Marconi
50 t Flag Facilities
82 t Reserve

[The Rock Doctor]

It might be a little soon to jump to fast battleships - you've barely started the first class of battlecruiser, and have had technical issues with it.  It would seem politically risky.

Of the two battleships, I'd go with the ten-gun ship.  The larger size is slightly more efficient, and it seems that folks - France, ESC, Rohan, GC - are looking to similarly sized ships for their current building program.

[Logi]

Bah, I thought it was fine. But I don't know much about CSA's politically issues anyways.

Of the two battleships, I prefer the ten-gun ship. The reason is the same as TRD, greater efficency.

[Guinness]

Well, the Fast BB is really an evolution of the existing BCs. Powerplant + 25%, guns +25% (shell weight), protection +10%. The hull has more beam and a higher block coefficient, but can be built on the same slips etc. I'd have to lay it down after I complete the next engine tech, so there will be time to digest the design experience of the BCs.

However, the BCs won't yet be in service, so I can still see the risk argument.

What is also risky is jumping straight to a ship with 3x15" mountings, when we haven't ever even built the twin 15".

Bah! Maybe I'll just build destroyers...

[Logi]

Nooooo! The small ships > big ships doctrine is the devil. Once it grasps hold of you, it'll never let you go. I say you build big ships and bigger ships. You build them so build its builder than the H44 Class! ;)