the Oficial NS new ship ideas thread

[Tanthalas]

THe Previously mentiond Alaskas, would require development of a new gun mount so im not sure using the 12" would be worth it in this case

USNSS Alaska, USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   24,044 t light; 25,276 t standard; 28,360 t normal; 30,827 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   720.00 ft / 720.00 ft x 90.00 ft x 31.00 ft (normal load)
   219.46 m / 219.46 m x 27.43 m  x 9.45 m

Armament:
      8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3 mounts), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      56 - 1.50" / 38.1 mm guns in single mounts, 1.69lbs / 0.77kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      34 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 7,759 lbs / 3,519 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   432.00 ft / 131.67 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   288.00 ft / 87.78 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   432.00 ft / 131.67 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 78,351 shp / 58,450 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,551 tons

Complement:
   1,092 - 1,420

Cost:
   £2.284 million / $9.136 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 970 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 9,271 tons, 32.7 %
      - Belts: 4,630 tons, 16.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 2,037 tons, 7.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,383 tons, 8.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 220 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,124 tons, 11.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,329 tons, 36.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,316 tons, 15.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     43,618 lbs / 19,785 Kg = 50.5 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.50

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.494
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      36.00 ft / 10.97 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Mid (40 %):      26.00 ft / 7.92 m (18.00 ft / 5.49 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   22.00 ft / 6.71 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 64.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 42,945 Square feet or 3,990 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 160 lbs/sq ft or 781 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.40
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

but DAMN what a BC they would be

[The Rock Doctor]

The only remarkable things about her are her seakeeping and the heaps of unnecessary light guns.  Not to say that she's bad, just that in most respects, she's quite average.

[Logi]

Yesssss... The real Alaska went at 31.4kts. Alaska are good for their speed. That's something you don't have.

Not a remarkable amount of firepower per displacement. In otherwords, it's average.
The advantages are what Rock said.

PS: Yes... That's what I look for firepower per ton...

[Tanthalas]

The only remarkable things about her are her seakeeping and the heaps of unnecessary light guns.  Not to say that she's bad, just that in most respects, she's quite average.

heh that was what I was going for (the Seakeaping) I love that message

Yesssss... The real Alaska went at 31.4kts. Alaska are good for their speed. That's something you don't have.

Not a remarkable amount of firepower per displacement. In otherwords, it's average.
The advantages are what Rock said.

PS: Yes... That's what I look for firepower per ton...

cant get 30kts+ (yet)

[Tanthalas]

ok now this looks like somthing the NS might consider, fast as a thief (for our time period anyway) armors a bit light, but I kinda like it... (HELP DF IS TAKING OVER MY MIND)

USNSS Chetah, USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   24,000 t light; 25,206 t standard; 28,128 t normal; 30,466 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   720.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.46 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (3 mounts), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 7,554 lbs / 3,426 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   26.10 ft / 7.96 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79,580 shp / 59,366 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,260 tons

Complement:
   1,085 - 1,411

Cost:
   £2.266 million / $9.065 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 944 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 9,401 tons, 33.4 %
      - Belts: 5,174 tons, 18.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 608 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 1,753 tons, 6.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,666 tons, 5.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 199 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,173 tons, 11.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,132 tons, 36.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,128 tons, 14.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     44,103 lbs / 20,005 Kg = 51.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 7.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30.85 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.94 ft / 6.08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 45,023 Square feet or 4,183 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 160 lbs/sq ft or 783 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Desertfox]

[Jedi mind trick] Must reduce armor for even more speed... [Jedi mind trick] :P ;D

Nobody likes the British BCs and prefers the German ones, but if you look at it closely, it wasn't the lack or armor that killed the British or the extra armor that saved the Germans. It was cordite that killed the British and it was the poor British shells that saved the Germans. Also the reason so many BCs where lost (compared to BBs) was that the BCs saw that much more combat.

I think Fisher got it right, firepower and speed come first, armor is for the weak. ;D


Getting back to the ship, she looks decent but undergunned. Suggest adding something bigger to give the Dutch heartburn.

[Valles]

A balanced ship just doesn't feel 'Swiss' to me...

[The Rock Doctor]

I like that better.

[Tanthalas]

I like that better.

thanks rock its either this or the Mackensen clone, so the choice is biger guns and more armor at less spd, or more spd lighter guns and armor.

[Korpen]

Well, an compromise design, she is about in between the Dutch and the DKB in combat capabillity, but not convinced that is a good thing.

[Tanthalas]

Well, an compromise design, she is about in between the Dutch and the DKB in combat capabillity, but not convinced that is a good thing.

HEH ya neither am I it acomplished the goal at the outset of making 28 knots, but im not realy sure that was a worthy goal...

[Korpen]

Well, an compromise design, she is about in between the Dutch and the DKB in combat capabillity, but not convinced that is a good thing.

HEH ya neither am I it acomplished the goal at the outset of making 28 knots, but im not realy sure that was a worthy goal...

Al depends on what you want it for; I think she is a great ship for shooting up the Molktes, but you would want lager guns against Willheminas and Sharnhorsts.

[Tanthalas]

Well, an compromise design, she is about in between the Dutch and the DKB in combat capabillity, but not convinced that is a good thing.

HEH ya neither am I it acomplished the goal at the outset of making 28 knots, but im not realy sure that was a worthy goal...

Al depends on what you want it for; I think she is a great ship for shooting up the Molktes, but you would want lager guns against Willheminas and Sharnhorsts.

think 6X14" would be enough? I can get them on it (just have to mess around with a few things) to go up to 8 though basicly I have to give up a knot.

[Tanthalas]

14" version

USNSS Tiger, USNS Battlecruiser laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   23,900 t light; 25,216 t standard; 28,139 t normal; 30,477 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   720.00 ft / 700.00 ft x 92.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.46 m / 213.36 m x 28.04 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (10x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.21lbs / 0.10kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 8,874 lbs / 4,025 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   280.00 ft / 85.34 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.50" / 38 mm   420.00 ft / 128.02 m   26.10 ft / 7.96 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 79,605 shp / 59,385 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,261 tons

Complement:
   1,086 - 1,412

Cost:
   £2.414 million / $9.655 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,109 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 8,860 tons, 31.5 %
      - Belts: 5,174 tons, 18.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 608 tons, 2.2 %
      - Armament: 1,212 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,666 tons, 5.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 199 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 3,174 tons, 11.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,406 tons, 37.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,239 tons, 15.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     42,003 lbs / 19,052 Kg = 30.6 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30.85 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 26.56 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      30.00 ft / 9.14 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.94 ft / 6.08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 45,031 Square feet or 4,184 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs/sq ft or 804 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.34
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Korpen]

think 6X14" would be enough? I can get them on it (just have to mess around with a few things) to go up to 8 though basicly I have to give up a knot.

Depends, think it is enough to gain the upper hand vs. Scharnhorst (8 vs. 6 30cm guns is not enough for that IMO). No matter what you will be outgunned vs. the latest Dutch ships, so then 8 x 356mm guns would most likely be better. But not if they cost you the speed you need vs. the DKB ships, as they are the greater threat.