the Oficial NS new ship ideas thread

[Korpen]

would they see I didnt know that, that makes me rethink the ship compleatly then.  I was thinking 12" would let me outrange 10" ships, oh well i g2g for a bit ill play around with it more later.

Well, the larger guns are most likely more accurate at longer range, and it can defeat 15cm at much longer ranges. Think your design armour would be able to stop Hapsburg 9,2 shells at about 10km, and the deck at below 13km. The opposite would not be true.
So I think that the six 30cm gunned ships would have an advantage at long range as it is more accurate, and can more easily defeat armour for a crippling strike. At the same time the need of spotting combined with the time of flight will result in that any advantage in rate of fire for the lighter gun would be significantly lessened.
But if the fight is conducted at less then 10km, the lighter guns higher ROF, and larger number would give them a significant advantage IMO.

[Tanthalas]

my "goa;" in this exersize is to be able to determine what range combat is at, basicly to control the engagement.  im working with another idea atm ill post it afterwhile

[Borys]

Ahoj!
At what range would 350-400lbs APC shells from 9" (ish) guns fail to pentrate the 6" belt?

Borys

[Tanthalas]

USNS Perth, USNS Cruiser laid down 1912

Displacement:
   15,000 t light; 15,850 t standard; 17,476 t normal; 18,777 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   600.00 ft / 600.00 ft x 75.00 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
   182.88 m / 182.88 m x 22.86 m  x 7.62 m

Armament:
     10 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (4 mounts), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 5,864 lbs / 2,660 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   210.00 ft / 64.00 m                   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

  - Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 72,779 shp / 54,293 Kw = 28.00 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,927 tons

Complement:
   759 - 987

Cost:
   £1.547 million / $6.188 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 733 tons, 4.2 %
   Armour: 4,427 tons, 25.3 %
      - Belts: 2,618 tons, 15.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 942 tons, 5.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 866 tons, 5.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 2,902 tons, 16.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,637 tons, 38.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,476 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     20,942 lbs / 9,499 Kg = 41.9 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.544
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26.00 ft / 7.92 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (70 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Stern:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.92 ft / 6.07 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 157.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 31,220 Square feet or 2,900 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 691 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.43
      - Overall: 1.00
               Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 tons FC set
 25 Tons Wireless
 10 Tons Limited Flag Facilities
   4 Tons Night Fighting
   9 Tons Deapth Charges
   2 Tons Hydrophones

[Tanthalas]

Ahoj!
At what range would 350-400lbs APC shells from 9" (ish) guns fail to pentrate the 6" belt?

Borys

IDK but there is the 10" version I was playing with.

[Tanthalas]

Proly not what I should be building but it came out nice so thought Id go ahead and post it.

USNSS Tiger, USNS Battle Cruiser laid down 1912

mark 1 see mk2 for final (I think its final anyway)

[Guinness]

That's no battlecruiser. That's a fast battleship!

[Desertfox]

I like her, something to counter those Dutch BCs. A few comments:

NS would use 14" guns, not 13.5". Secondaries are a bit light, you DO NOT want torpedo boats getting within torpedo range. You miight want to add 4 more 6" guns and alot more 4 inchers. You can probably reduce shells per main guns. Deck armor is thin (for an NS Ship) even the Constitutions have 3" decks. You can probably reduce belt armor to compensate. If you can reduce length by 10 ft you can fit her into a Type 3 Slip. I would love to see her with 16 inchers, but that's probably for the future.

[Tanthalas]

dont know if I can reduce her length that is the SS standard length for 27 kts (so it takes less shp to get to 27) my research indicates historical norm for decks was about 1.5 inches (on german BBs and BCs).  I was thinking a 4 ship class Lion, Tiger, Panther, and Puma as the heavy anchors for the NSN, and yes they are fast BBs not true BCs i'll try reducing the shells per gun for a few more 6" guns (4 for balance purposes)

[Tanthalas]

Reworked a tad to take some of DFs advice into account

USNSS Lion, USNS Battle Cruiser laid down 1912

Final Below

[Tanthalas]

fixed the issue Discoverd during drawing and upgraded to 14" guns (the turrets wouldnt fit.... ) added the pic



USNSS Lion, USNS Fast Battleship laid down 1912

Displacement:
   28,858 t light; 30,258 t standard; 33,000 t normal; 35,194 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   720.00 ft / 720.00 ft x 99.00 ft x 30.00 ft (normal load)
   219.46 m / 219.46 m x 30.18 m  x 9.14 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1912 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (8x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (4x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1912 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1912 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 12,960 lbs / 5,879 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   476.00 ft / 145.08 m   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   244.00 ft / 74.37 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   475.00 ft / 144.78 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.00" / 25 mm   475.00 ft / 144.78 m   26.00 ft / 7.92 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm      12.0" / 305 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 80,063 shp / 59,727 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,936 tons

Complement:
   1,223 - 1,591

Cost:
   £2.818 million / $11.271 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,620 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 11,187 tons, 33.9 %
      - Belts: 6,384 tons, 19.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 457 tons, 1.4 %
      - Armament: 2,257 tons, 6.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,824 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 266 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,192 tons, 9.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,458 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,142 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     44,492 lbs / 20,181 Kg = 32.4 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 6.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 17.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.27 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   22.00 ft / 6.71 m
      - Mid (75 %):      22.00 ft / 6.71 m (13.00 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Stern:      13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.99 ft / 6.09 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 49,288 Square feet or 4,579 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 182 lbs/sq ft or 889 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250 tons FC
  25 tons Wireless
  25 tons Flag Facilities

[Tanthalas]

the DD ill be laying down in H113 (im finishing the report now) The replacement for alot of the light hulls I have in the watter atm.



USNSS Sipan, USNS Destroyer laid down 1913 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   1,000 t light; 1,043 t standard; 1,241 t normal; 1,400 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   330.00 ft / 330.00 ft x 28.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
   100.58 m / 100.58 m x 8.53 m  x 3.66 m

Armament:
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1913 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward
      6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 192 lbs / 87 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   6 - 19.7" / 500.38 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 21,312 shp / 15,899 Kw = 30.00 kts
   Range 3,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 357 tons

Complement:
   103 - 135

Cost:
   £0.153 million / $0.612 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 24 tons, 1.9 %
   Machinery: 607 tons, 48.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 320 tons, 25.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 241 tons, 19.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 4.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     322 lbs / 146 Kg = 10.1 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
   Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 10.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.32
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.392
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.79 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Stern:      8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.24 ft / 3.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 74.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 5,663 Square feet or 526 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 64 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 27 lbs/sq ft or 131 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.57
      - Overall: 0.56
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

10 Tons Wireless
  6 Tons Torps
  4 Tons Minesweepiing
  4 Tons Night Fighting
  6 Tons Deapth charges
  2 Tons Hydrophones
18 Tons Remaining for future growth/improvements

[The Rock Doctor]

Drop the minesweeping stuff - there won't be room on the stern if she's already got depth charges there.

[Tanthalas]

Drop the minesweeping stuff - there won't be room on the stern if she's already got depth charges there.

ill have to post the pic the deapth charges are actualy roughly midships (in the pic you cant miss em) hold on a sec ill post the pic.  Oh and realy at this stage all minesweeping gear consists of is a cable run between 2 ships (usualy destroyers) that they drag at a certian depth in the hope of disloging and exploding mines (atleast in the best of my knowlage)

[Tanthalas]

POsted the pic keep in mind it isnt actualy finished, it is to scale however.  As always 1pix=1foot