Cruiser Question

[Guinness]

I was just messing around tonight with the idea of a new CSA "trade protection" cruiser, but I'm not sure that I understand the rules correctly. For a 7.5" gunned ship, is that BB/AC architecture?

At any rate, here's my example ship:

CSA 7.5" Gunned Cruiser, CSA Cruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   9,500 t light; 9,957 t standard; 11,533 t normal; 12,793 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   600.00 ft / 600.00 ft x 61.50 ft x 21.16 ft (normal load)
   182.88 m / 182.88 m x 18.75 m  x 6.45 m

Armament:
      8 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (4x2 guns), 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      6 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      1 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing gun in a deck mount with hoist
     on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (1x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mount
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 1,953 lbs / 886 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   421.00 ft / 128.32 m   11.50 ft / 3.51 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -         1.50" / 38 mm
   3rd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -         1.50" / 38 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   5th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 80,000 shp / 59,680 Kw = 30.85 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,837 tons

Complement:
   556 - 723

Cost:
   £1.449 million / $5.795 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 258 tons, 2.2 %
   Armour: 1,690 tons, 14.7 %
      - Belts: 799 tons, 6.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 374 tons, 3.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 462 tons, 4.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 55 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 3,190 tons, 27.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,362 tons, 37.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,032 tons, 17.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     11,986 lbs / 5,437 Kg = 56.8 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.517
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27.00 ft / 8.23 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   24.00 ft / 7.32 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Stern:      19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.81 ft / 6.34 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 173.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,972 Square feet or 2,320 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 524 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.39
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[P3D]

Yes. But some end/upper belt armor as it is currently all-or-nothing, if you won't have it developed by 1915.

[Guinness]

Ah yes, thanks. Maybe I'll get a lucky roll. Truthfully, I picked 1915 to get it far enough in the future that it probably won't actually ever happen... At any rate, here's another, non-AON pass for the entertainment of others :)

CSA 7.5" Gunned Cruiser No AON, CSA Cruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   9,500 t light; 9,924 t standard; 11,387 t normal; 12,557 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   600.00 ft / 600.00 ft x 61.50 ft x 21.18 ft (normal load)
   182.88 m / 182.88 m x 18.75 m  x 6.46 m

Armament:
      7 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (4 mounts), 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      2 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns in single mounts, 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1,704 lbs / 773 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 200
   4 - 20.0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   390.00 ft / 118.87 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   2.00" / 51 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     20.00 ft / 6.10 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   395.00 ft / 120.40 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      3.00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   1.50" / 38 mm         -         1.50" / 38 mm
   3rd:   1.50" / 38 mm         -         1.50" / 38 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 5.00" / 127 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 67,000 shp / 49,982 Kw = 29.59 kts
   Range 7,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,633 tons

Complement:
   550 - 716

Cost:
   £1.303 million / $5.211 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 225 tons, 2.0 %
   Armour: 2,256 tons, 19.8 %
      - Belts: 1,387 tons, 12.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 355 tons, 3.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 459 tons, 4.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 55 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 2,671 tons, 23.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,147 tons, 36.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,887 tons, 16.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,012 lbs / 6,356 Kg = 66.4 x 7.5 " / 191 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.510
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.76 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      25.00 ft / 7.62 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Mid (50 %):      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Stern:      18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.75 ft / 6.02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,811 Square feet or 2,305 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 104 lbs/sq ft or 510 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc Weights:

100t: Fire control
4t: Torpedos
25t: Marconi
10t: Marconi
61t: Flag facilities, etc. and reserve

[Borys]

It is OK. The Habsburgs have similar designs in their drawers :)

Borys

[maddox]

That's a medium sized BC, with very very small main guns.

What is her purpose?

[Borys]

These are the British post WWI Counties.
Armoured against 6" guns of the typical Guerre de Course enemy, fast enough to catch it, and with heavier guns as to win a long range duel (as not to get into effective armour piercing range of the 6").

Borys

[Jefgte]

"...
7 - 7.50" / 191 mm guns (4 mounts), 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 1915 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
..."

7x191mm in 4 turrets, why not 8x191 ?
----------------------------------

"...
Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   395.00 ft / 120.40 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
..."
What is the interrest to have a 3" upper belt
This is a cruiser not a BB or a BC


Global impression...Not very powerfull for a 9500t cruiser
suggest:
Remove upperbelt & instal 5T2x191
(ABCXY or ABQXY)


Jef  ;)

[Borys]

This is a small AC - and with that 3" belt at longer ranges is pretty much immune to 6" or smaller guns.

Borys

[Jefgte]

Yes Boris but that is upper belt, not main belt.

For a cruiser, upper belt is not really neccessary.


Jef  ;)

[Sachmle]

But since it'a an Armoured Crusier, which falls under the BB/AC tech tree, you can't have just a main belt unless you have All or Nothing tech.

[Borys]

The 2nd design is OK - has MB and UB.
Borys

[Borys]

From the Habsburg drawer - a small AC with 1912 engines:

Turrets are ABXY - B is superfiring, and X and Y are on same level

Displacement:
   6 996 t light; 7 319 t standard; 8 068 t normal; 8 667 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   527,00 ft / 527,00 ft x 60,00 ft x 19,00 ft (normal load)
   160,63 m / 160,63 m x 18,29 m  x 5,79 m

Armament:
      6 - 7,50" / 191 mm guns (3x2 guns), 220,00lbs / 99,79kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority aft
      2 - 7,50" / 191 mm guns (1x2 guns), 220,00lbs / 99,79kg shells, 1913 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
      4 - 0,43" / 11,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,04lbs / 0,02kg shells, 1913 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 1 760 lbs / 798 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 160
   8 - 20,0" / 508 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,00" / 76 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   11,60 ft / 3,54 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   2,00" / 51 mm   350,00 ft / 106,68 m   8,00 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 102% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4,00" / 102 mm   2,00" / 51 mm      3,00" / 76 mm
   2nd:   4,00" / 102 mm   2,00" / 51 mm      3,50" / 89 mm

   - Armour deck: 1,00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3,00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 45 457 shp / 33 911 Kw = 28,00 kts
   Range 9 000nm at 10,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 348 tons (50% coal)

Complement:
   425 - 553

Cost:
   £0,750 million / $3,002 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 211 tons, 2,6%
   Armour: 1 442 tons, 17,9%
      - Belts: 744 tons, 9,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
      - Armament: 292 tons, 3,6%
      - Armour Deck: 379 tons, 4,7%
      - Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0,3%
   Machinery: 1 899 tons, 23,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 244 tons, 40,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 072 tons, 13,3%
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     9 095 lbs / 4 126 Kg = 43,1 x 7,5 " / 191 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
   Metacentric height 2,9 ft / 0,9 m
   Roll period: 14,7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,470
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,78 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,96 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      26,00 ft / 7,92 m
      - Forecastle (25%):   22,00 ft / 6,71 m
      - Mid (35%):      22,00 ft / 6,71 m (14,00 ft / 4,27 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   14,00 ft / 4,27 m
      - Stern:      14,00 ft / 4,27 m
      - Average freeboard:   17,20 ft / 5,24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118,7%
   Waterplane Area: 20 512 Square feet or 1 906 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 503 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,41
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Jefgte]

Sachmle wrote:
"But since it'a an Armoured Crusier, which falls under the BB/AC tech tree, you can't have just a main belt unless you have All or Nothing tech."

I agree but Armour is made to protect "Interresting things"
Armament, crew, machinery

In this upper part, probably hammocks , kitchens...

A lighter upperbelt is enough 1 to 2"

Good protection for crew secondary armament is neccessary.


Jef   ;)

[Borys]

Sachmle wrote:
"But since it'a an Armoured Crusier, which falls under the BB/AC tech tree, you can't have just a main belt unless you have All or Nothing tech."

I agree but Armour is made to protect "Interresting things"
Armament, crew, machinery

In this upper part, probably hammocks , kitchens...

Oh, I REALLY wouldn't like the enemy to see my Spiderman pajamas ...
Borys

[Jefgte]

  :D
  :D
  :D


Jef  :D